Jonathan Karl spoke with Stephen Colbert Monday night about events surrounding the Jan. 6 insurrection. The ABC News Chief White House Correspondent is promoting “Betrayal: The Final Act of the Trump Show.”
Peter Weber at The Week recounts:
While the rioters were still ransacking the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, trying to prevent the peaceful transfer of power from Donald Trump to President Biden, Trump’s former chief of staff John Kelly told ABC News’ Jonathan Karl “he wanted the 25th amendment to be invoked, immediately,” Karl told Stephen Colbert on Monday’s Late Show, and Trump’s Cabinet “should meet right now and they should get him out now.”
Rioters “were trying to stop what makes American democracy democracy,” Karl said.
“They almost succeeded, Karl continued, echoing many other witnesses to the sacking of the U.S. Capitol. The “heroes” of that day were not your traditional heroes, many of them longtime, lower-level Republican functionaries, some of them even “political hacks,” but committed to doing their jobs.
Karl recounts interviewing Trump at Mar-a-Lago after he left office and describes him as
“utterly delusional.” Trump insisted on holding the interview in the resort’s lobby just before dinner to ensure everyone would see him being interviewed.
“I’m with the great Jonathan Karl,” Trump told guests. Trump at other times described Karl in less favorable terms.
In an audio clip, Trump is heard (above lobby noise) responding to a question about the Jan. 6 riot. Trump focuses instead on the crowd size, about how many came at his beckoning.
“Can you imagine?” Karl said. “I’m asking him about a riot, I’m asking about one of the darkest days in American history, and he’s talking about how many people came out to see him.”
Coilbert asked about Karl’s dispute with the former vice president. Karl has been trying to get released photographs taken by a White House photographer of Vice President Mike Pence hiding out in the bowels of the Capitol on that day.“I have a suspicion that the Jan. 6 committee is going to want to see those photos,” Karl said. The documents are government property the committee will likely review.
Karl’s “utterly deluional” assessment oversimplifies the knot of personality disorders and maladaptive behaviors that is Donald Trump.
Earlier this year, Alan D. Blotcky, a clinical psychologist and clinical associate professor of psychology at the University of Alabama at Birmingham gave his remote assessment of Trump in Salon. Calling Trump delusional provides an excuse for his behavior. He is worse than delusional:
Trump is a megalomaniac who thinks he is smarter, richer and stronger than anyone else. Everything he says and does is aimed at fortifying his grandiose and superior persona. He never admits to a mistake. He never acknowledges a loss. He always doubles down on a position. He does not care a whit about the people of this country. Grifting others is his sport. Despite being impeached twice and losing the national election by 7 million votes, Trump marches on with his false self of grandiosity. That is not a delusion — it is his psychic machinery of self-preservation.
It is a mistake to consider Trump psychotic. That would be to assume that psychiatric medication might alleviate his delusional thinking. But medication cannot fix a psychopath with malignant narcissism. Medication cannot fix a manipulative and exploitative opportunist. Medication does not affect shamelessness and lack of a moral compass. Medication cannot make a self-serving “delusion” disappear.
Trump remains a grave risk to democracy. He will throw anyone and anything under the bus to save his own hide and to advance his personal power and greed. If democracy gets in the way, he is more than ready to smash it or flick it away. Do not forget his glee as he watched the attempted coup against our nation our on television. He thought Jan. 6 might be his de facto coronation as dictator. That was his plan all along. He is an authoritarian, not a psychotic.
But you knew that.