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Month: April 2023

Ron gets pissy

NOT. READY. FOR. PRIME. TIME.
Desantis melts down today outside the protective bubble of his carefully controlled, scripted FL events.

At the Museum of Tolerance, of all places.

The question that set DeSnowflake off was about this.

Originally tweeted by Ron Filipkowski (@RonFilipkowski) on April 27, 2023.

I wrote about this before but I think it’s important. There is evidence that Ron DeSantis covered up torture at Guantanamo. He refuses to talk about it. And if you think the guy in that video up top is incapable of being complicit in torturing you aren’t paying attention.

Here’s an excerpt from the Guardian today. If you are interested in this story, you should read the whole thing:

“DeSantis and his group, the JAGs people were there. They were conducting the investigation,” Aziz said. “They were coming the same day the people died. They came to the cells.”

What DeSantis saw and heard in the hours and days after the three deaths could be key to an enduring mystery that has hung over Guantánamo ever since: how did Ahmed, Utaybi and Zahrani die?

Before the investigation even began, Harris, who would also later serve as US ambassador to Seoul, declared the three prisoners had killed themselves, describing it as “an act of asymmetrical warfare waged against us”. An official inquiry by the Navy Criminal Investigation Service (NCIS), who DeSantis had been detailed to support, concurred with Harris’s verdict within 11 days, though its findings were only made public two years later, in a report that was rife with contradictions and literal holes, with multiple pages missing.

Anyone who was on the scene would have known there were serious questions about the official account. According to that narrative, the dead men bound their hands and feet, stuck cloth deep down their own throats, fashioned nooses from strips of material, climbed on their washbasins with the noose around their neck and stepped off.

They had only been in the same prison block, Alpha, for 72 hours, in separate cells with empty cells in between. Alpha block was for high-security prisoners who were forbidden to mingle or even talk to each other. Yet the three men were alleged to have conspired to kill themselves in exactly the same manner at exactly the same time.

By the time they were brought to the clinic, Ahmed and Utaybi’s bodies already had advanced rigor mortis, setting the time of death to before 10.30pm. That meant that, according to the official version, they would have been hanging for more than two hours in cells with transparent wire mesh sides, in a block holding about 15 prisoners that was meant to be continually patrolled along a central walkway by a team of six guards.

Mark Denbeaux, a professor at Seton Hall law school, who led to forensic analyses of the three deaths, said it was hard to imagine that anyone with DeSantis’s legal training would fail to spot the inconsistencies in the official version.

“Any JAG would want to know how guys would die while they’re in a cell guarded by five guys, and how they could have been hanging long enough for rigor mortis and with a rag shoved down their throats,” Denbeaux said.

The NCIS report said that the three men had blocked the view into their cells with blankets and mattresses and stuffed other fabric into their beds to make it look as if they were asleep. It was never explained where they would have all acquired so much material, which was severely restricted. A routine search of all the Alpha block cells by a guard shift a few hours earlier found no evidence of any such banned material. The official report said “apparent suicide notes” were found, but the documents were never submitted for fingerprint or handwriting analysis.

The NCIS investigators did not formally interview the senior medical officer on duty that night, nor did they talk to the soldiers from a military intelligence unit in the guard towers with a clear sight of the camp, and whose version of events was quite different from the NCIS account.

According to Joseph Hickman, who was sergeant of the guard that night, no one was taken from Alpha block to the medical clinic. However, hours earlier in the evening, a white prison van came three times, and each time navy guards took away a prisoner and drove towards a secret site that appeared on no maps, hidden from view and surrounded by razor wire. Hickman and his fellow soldiers referred to it as Camp No as in “No such camp”. It was revealed much later to be a CIA black site, where inmates were subjected to “enhanced interrogation”.

Hickman and his unit were under standing orders not to interfere with the van or to record its movements. The vehicle returned at 11.30pm but Hickman did not see who was in it, because it backed up to the medical clinic where it was unloaded. The soldiers saw no other activity until about 12.15am, when the camp lights were suddenly turned on and the alarm was sounded.

In 2009, two years after he left the army, Hickman approached Denbeaux and together they approached the justice department, then under Barack Obama’s administration, and presented testimony of what he and eight other soldiers saw that night. Officials assured them the deaths would be investigated, but nearly a year of silence went by before Denbeaux got a call saying, without explanation, the investigation had been dropped.

Pence is no hero

If he testifies truthfully it could be helpful but it can’t erase his pushing of the Big Lie

On Wednesday night the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia ruled that Donald Trump could not claim executive privilege to prevent his former Vice President Mike Pence from testifying before the Grand Jury that’s hearing evidence for Special Counsel Jack Smith’s investigation into the former president’s activities leading up to January 6th. Immediately on Thursday morning Pence testified for more than five hours. I guess they didn’t want to waste any more time.

Pence and his team had negotiated with the Special Counsel for months to avoid having to do a voluntary interview and ended up filing a lawsuit to prevent testifying under subpoena. He claimed that as President of the Senate he could not be compelled to testify under the Speech and Debate clause of the constitution which protects members of congress and a judge partially bought the argument. Pence was told he must testify but he can avoid answering questions about his legislative role on Jan. 6.

In theory,Pence could have a boatload of first hand information to share with the Special Counsel, backing up other testimony and possibly offering new details to which only he was privy. He can’t that the 5th because he isn’t implicated in anything illegal and he’s not someone who flipped for special consideration. He would be a great witness before a jury.

The assumption seems to be that he will tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth but I have to wonder why. Is it beyond the realm of possibility that Mike Pence would lie? I know he is a very pious, prayerful man but he worked shoulder to shoulder with the greatest liar in history for four long years and lavishly praised him to such an extent he was known as the sycophant in chief. His adoring, puppy dog gaze toward the president spawned hundreds of memes. In one cabinet meeting he praised Trump once every 12 seconds for three minutes straight. If he is really is as honest as the day is long, how did he last for four years with a man who lies as easily as he breathes?

On the other hand, while he hasn’t officially announced, he appears to be running for president — against Donald Trump. A ruthlessly ambitious politician in his position wouldn’t hesitate to air every bit of dirty laundry to the Grand Jury and since it’s secret, he could do that even as he presents himself to the MAGA crowd as a more or less loyal soldier. Unfortunately, they hate him anyway because Trump told them it’s his fault that Trump isn’t still in the White House so I don’t think any Machiavellian maneuvers would make a difference. MAGA will never forgive him for what he did. He can help to destroy Trump but it won’t redound to his benefit.

So maybe Pence is actually looking at his political legacy. He was right in the middle of one of the most famous political events in American history and he showed himself to be quite brave that day. The mob was coming for him after Trump held him to blame for the fact that his coup plot didn’t work and he stayed at the Capitol in order to certify the vote later that night. It was the only time Pence ever publicly stood up to Trump and it happened to be at a very crucial moment.

But let’s remind ourselves of what else Pence did. From the day after the election pence joined with Trump in casting doubt on the election results. On November 9th he tweeted, “It ain’t over til it’s over. And it AIN”T over!” On January 5th at a big rally in Georgia for the runoff for the two Senate seats, he told the crowd, “We all got our doubts about the last election I want to assure you that I share the concerns of the millions of Americans about voting irregularities. I promise you come this Wednesday we’ll have our day in Congress.” Even after the horrifying events of January 6th, a couple of months later ,Pence wrote an op-ed calling the election results into question and railing against the Democratic initiatives to shore up the voting laws. He led with this:

After an election marked by significant voting irregularities and numerous instances of officials setting aside state election law, I share the concerns of millions of Americans about the integrity of the 2020 election.

He spread the Big Lie right along with Trump all the way to the end and beyond.

More significantly, Pence gets tremendous credit for refusing Trump entreaties to either refuse to count the electoral votes or call for a “pause” as his hack legal advisers were advising. According to Bob Woodward and Robert Costa in their book “Peril” he consulted with several lawyers and experts to see if it really was possible and even called upon his fellow Indianan, former Vice President Dan Quayle. Quayle told him, “Mike you have no flexibility on this. None, Zero. Forget it, Put it away.”

But he didn’t need to seek advice from any lawyer or former Vice President. Anyone with the tiniest bit of integrity would have said, “absolutely not” the minute it was brought up and that would be the end of that. He knew Biden won the election, they all did. And he knew that Trump was trying to steal it by first lying about the so-called “irregularities” which had been litigated in more than 60 lawsuits, and then concocting a scheme to obstruct the peaceful transfer of power.

Keep in mind that others in the White House did the right thing. Even Trump’s accomplice, Bill Barr a man who believes in almost limitless executive power, finally called it a day at the end of December. But Pence kept questioning what he should do even though he certainly knew that what they were asking him to do was unconstitutional and wrong. He was looking for reasons to do it anyway and he just couldn’t find anyone but Trump’s looney legal freakshow to tell him should. It was only then that he decided once and for all that he couldn’t do it.

If his memory holds up, Pence could certainly shed light on some of the conversations he had with Trump leading up to January 6th. What we know of those conversations could be very damning for Trump, particularly if he let on that he knew he didn’t really win. And as far as the insurrection goes, according to Woodward and Costa, on the night of January 5th when Pence told him finally that he did not have the power to do what Trump was asking him to do Trump, looking out on to the noisy crowd that had gathered in front of White House, said to him, “well, what if these people say you do? If these people say you have the power wouldn’t you want to?” It certainly would be interesting to know what Pence thought he meant by that. The very next day Trump was telling those people he was going to lead a march to the capitol to let the US Congress know exactly what they wanted.

Mike Pence might do the right thing and testify truthfully and thoroughly to this Grand Jury.. He did finally do the right thing on January 6th. But he tried every way he could think of the find a way to do what his boss and mentor wanted him to do and he just couldn’t figure out how to get it done.

He is no profile in courage.

Salon

“Patriots, I hear this woman”

Former president Donald Trump hugged and consoled a woman who breached the Capitol during the January 6th insurrection at a campaign stop in New Hampshire, the Washington Post first reported.

In a clear attempt to appeal to the further-right members of his base, Trump embraced 54-year-old Micki Larson-Olson, a Trump über-fan who’d driven 30 hours to see him speak in Manchester, New Hampshire, on Thursday.

“President Trump, will you please sign my Trump backpack that I carried up to Jan. 6?” she shouted, donning a red-white-and-blue ensemble with a matching wig. “I went to jail for 161 days for Jan. 6. I’m an Iraq War veteran.”

Larson-Olson was found guilty last September of a misdemeanor for resisting police efforts to clear the Capitol complex after the breach. According to the Justice Department, U.S. Capitol Police approached the Texas woman, “who was dressed in a Captain America costume and holding two flags in the air,” and repeatedly asked her to leave. But she refused and attached herself to a scaffolding with her arms and legs before swearing at the officers and calling them “traitors.”

“It took six officers who were forced to physically carry her from the scaffolding area as she screamed at and fought them,” the U.S. Attorney’s Office of the District of Columbia said.

“Patriots, I hear this woman,” Trump said in Manchester Thursday. At one point, he said that he thought the prosecution of Jan. 6 defendants was “so terrible.”

“It’s terrible,” he said. “What they’re saying is so sad, what they’ve done to Jan. 6.”

It’s worse than what they’ve done to Christmas.

By the way:


A peach of a zinger

Day after day

Shake that man’s hand. I continue to be amazed that, Pulitzers or not, Atlanta Journal-Constitution’s Mike Luckovich hasn’t been run out of his swing state. Georgia is not that purple.

From Wednesday:

From Thursday (O-U-C-H!):

Damn. Has Luckovich got a security detail?

Here’s another classic:

Conscience or caution?

Two red-state abortion bans fail

South Carolina State House. Photo: Fei Wang via Google Maps.

The conservative rush to turn post-Roe v. Wade United States into Gilead hit a couple of speed bumps on Thursday. The civil war against women halted first in South Carolina (of all places) and again in Nebraska hours later.

Washington Post:

In lengthy and often impassioned speeches on the South Carolina Senate floor, the state’s five female senators — three Republicans and two Democrats — decried what would have been a near-total ban on abortion. One, Sen. Sandy Senn (R), likened the implications to the dystopian novel “The Handmaid’s Tale,” in which women are treated as property of the state.

Senn seems almost peeved about that. She said abortion laws “have always been, each and every one of them, about control — plain and simple. And in the Senate, the males have all the control.”

South Carolina and Nebraska currently allow abortions for up to about 22 weeks.

Nebraska’s bill that would have banned most all abortions after 6 weeks faltered for lack of a single vote when two senators did not vote:

Merv Riepe, a longtime Republican who would have been the decisive vote to advance the bill to a final round of voting, abstained over his concern that the six-week ban might not give women enough time to know they are pregnant.

Riepe told the Flatwater Free Press that he was concerned the Nebraska bill would be viewed as a total ban. “At the end of the day, I need to look back and be able to say to myself, ‘Did you do the best?’” Riepe told the paper. “No group came to me, asking me to do this. This is of my own beliefs, my own commitments.”

Nebraska Gov. Jim Pillen (R) seemed almost peeved that. He said it was “unacceptable for senators to be present not voting on such a momentous vote.”

What’s going on here? The 2024 elections may be 18 months away, but the growing fury of women over the Supreme Court’s unpopular 2022 decision overturning Roe is weighing on Republican minds. Especially after the party’s epic poor showing in the 2022 midterms.

Neighboring Kansas voters’ August 2022 rejection of a constitutional amendment stripping abortion protections there may have given a few Nebraska legislators pause to reconsider how Gilead they were prepared to go.

Your misogyny is showing

The five women in the South Carolina state Senate did not have to read between the lines:

“The total ban that’s being debated here today clearly places the rights of a fetus over the rights of the women and girls who will be forced by our male-dominated legislature to carry that fetus to term,” said Sen. Mia McLeod. “To be blunt, the majority has no frame of reference. There’s only five of us in this body who have actually given birth.”

“If this bill passes, a baby will be forced to carry and deliver another baby, even if it costs her her life,” added McLeod, an independent.

As other southern states have enacted near-total bans, South Carolina has become a destination for women seeking abortions, notes the New York Times:

Both states would have joined a growing list of Republican-dominated states with severe restrictions on abortion. So far, 14 states have active bans on nearly all abortions, though some allow exceptions for rape and danger to the life of the mother. Georgia and Florida also ban abortions after six weeks of pregnancy, but Florida’s ban is on hold pending a court challenge.

The state’s Supreme Court ruled in January that South Carolina’s constitutionally guaranteed right to privacy extends to abortion. The 3-2 majority wrote that “the decision to terminate a pregnancy rests upon the utmost personal and private considerations imaginable,” but the state retained an “interest in protecting unborn life.”

South Carolina could still pass a ban in the remaining six weeks of its session.

It remains unclear whether the legislative failures conservatives encountered in South Carolina and Nebraska represent speed bumps rather than attacks of conscience, or reassessments of how the GOP’s rush to Gilead will land with voters in 2024.

Riepe, a former hospital administrator, addressed colleagues after an amendment he offered failed. It would have moved the Nebraska ban out to 12 weeks.

The Associated Press reports, “Riepe took to the mic to warn his conservative colleagues that they should heed signs that abortion will galvanize women to vote them out of office.”

They might not lose sleep over their attitudes toward women, but they might over women’s attitudes toward them.

She may not be past her prime but she’s certainly past her political expiration date

Republican presidential candidate Nikki Haley said Wednesday that President Joe Biden, 80, will likely die within five years and that his supporters would have to count on Vice President Kamala Harris if he were to win re-election next year.

“He announced that he’s running again in 2024, and I think that we can all be very clear and say with a matter of fact that if you vote for Joe Biden you really are counting on a President Harris, because the idea that he would make it until 86 years old is not something that I think is likely,” Haley, 51, said in an interview on Fox News.

It’s even less like that Nikki Haley will be in politics in five years so …

“There ain’t never enough time, never enough…”

This piece by Tim Miller made me laugh. He’s so right:

Brokeback Party

The Republican party has barely tried anything in their effort to move on and they are already out of ideas. After a few bad weeks in the polls for Tiny D, the party poohbahs are throwing in the towel and getting back aboard the Trump Train. 

Whether it’s a pheremonal attraction to his rakish, devil-may-care persona, an addiction to the small donors and the retweets, an unquenchable desire to be invited to a disgusting dinner in a gaudy dining room, a cowardly fear of being shouted down at the airport by obese hillbillies, a boner for making the libs squirm—or a little from columns A, B, C, D, and E—the GOP grownups are signing up to Do It all over again. Like the besotted Jack Twist staring at their mountain man, these Republicans just don’t know how to quit Trump. 

In just the past week, the former guy has received endorsements from both the head of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, Steve Daines, and Lee Zeldin, the Republican nominee for governor in New York in 2022.

I think it’s important to step back and appreciate how insane these endorsements are, because these guys are not random backbench MAGA morons.

Zeldin was reportedly set to be a “top official” in the DeSantis campaign before he signed on with Trump. (Ouch!) This guy was puffed up as a future party leader by establishment favorite Tom Cotton on the Sunday shows and he was the secret candidate that “closet normal” Republicans were trying to recruit to take over the RNC from Ronna “Don’t-Call-Me-Romney” and the Trumpers after the midterm disappointment. 

As for Daines, it is his job to manage the campaign committee that has as its entire purpose the election of GOP senators. The sole individual responsible for tanking that mission in 2022 was Donald Trump—whose endorsed candidates crashed and burned in every competitive race.

Not to mention that seven of Daines’s colleagues voted—just three years ago!—to convict Trump over his attempt to overthrow the government, a vote that carried with it the consequence of prohibiting him from being elected to federal office again in an unprecedented rebuke of a president by members of his own party. (Four of the seven GOP “guilty” votes are still in the Senate, and one of them, Mitt Romney, is up for re-election next year.)

In what world does it make sense for the guy who is ostensibly in charge of winning elections for the GOP to throw in with Trump after all that? There’s still ten months until the voting begins!  And Daines decided to announce his endorsement on the disgraced, twice-impeached president’s nepo-baby’s podcast.

This is fucking madness! 

In any sane world, endorsing Trump on Don Jr.’s Triggered pod would be grounds for replacing Daines with someone, anyone, who was awake in 2022. It should be a disqualifying act. Politico should be littered with pieces sourcing privately concerned Republicans on background about how they are worried the NRSC chair has lost his mind. 

And yet news of the Daines endorsement was met with nary a peep from his colleagues, who are spending their time these days either hyperventilating over Bud Light or cowering in the corner in fear of a Trump bleat. Today, the big-foot Politico column about accepting a Trump nomination quotes a “shrewd” GOP strategist content to “go into the basement, ride out the tornado,” which raises the question, when exactly did you leave the basement, gimp? Yesterday, it was revealed that when the  RNC looked at why they lost in 2022 they were too scared to even mention Trump’s name.

These are just the latest pieces of evidence that the number of politicians left in the party who haven’t been completely corrupted by Trump can be counted on one hand. And while the fingers of their affection might be tiny and pudgy, Ennis does have those dreamy blue eyes . . .

As every writer has written more than once: “they just can’t quit him.”

Red Flags everywhere

Jack Texeira was a ticking time bomb

He appears to be one of those heavily armed, racist, incels with a propensity for grandiosity and violence. How in the hell did he get that top security clearance?

 Jack Teixeira, the Massachusetts Air National Guardsman accused of posting classified documents online, repeatedly tried to obstruct federal investigators and has a “troubling” history of making racist and violent remarks, Justice Department lawyers said in a court filing late Wednesday.

In an 18-page memo, released before a detention hearing scheduled for Thursday in a Massachusetts federal court, the department’s lawyers argued that Airman Teixeira needed to be detained indefinitely because he posed a “serious flight risk” and might still have information that would be of “tremendous value to hostile nation states.”

Airman Teixeira tapped into vast reservoirs of sensitive information, an amount that “far exceeds what has been publicly disclosed” so far, they wrote.

Prosecutors pointedly questioned Airman Teixeira’s overall state of mind, disclosing that he was suspended from high school in 2018 for alarming comments about the use of Molotov cocktails and other weapons, and trawled the internet for information about mass shootings. He engaged in “regular discussions about violence and murder” on the same social media platform, Discord, that he used to post classified information, the filing said, and he surrounded his bed at his parents’ house with firearms and tactical gear.

Airman Teixeira was also prone to making “racial threats,” prosecutors said.

This behavior — so disturbing it was flagged by local police when he applied for a firearms identification card — is certain to raise new questions about how Airman Teixeira obtained a top-secret security clearance that gave him access to some of the country’s most sensitive intelligence reports.

Mr. Teixeira’s court-appointed lawyers dismissed the claim that he would be in a flight risk, and proposed that he be released on a $20,000 bond to his family’s custody, in a response filed several hours before the hearing.

The episode in high school took place during his sophomore year and was never repeated, they said. The lawyers also played down the idea that he would have an opportunity to turn information over to the United States’ enemies.

The government provided “little more than speculation that a foreign adversary will seduce Mr. Teixeira and orchestrate his clandestine escape from the United States,” they wrote.

His legal team also offered a fleeting first glimpse at possible defense arguments, claiming that the government has not offered proof Mr. Teixeira ever intended for the information posted to a private social media server “to be widely disseminated.”

Mr. Teixeira’s lawyers described him as compliant — and said he sat on the porch reading a Bible as he waited to be arrested — but the government painted a starkly different picture.

In arguing for his confinement, prosecutors described a panicked effort by Airman Teixeira to cover up his actions as law enforcement closed in, including telling a member of a chat group to “delete all messages,” and instructing a user to stonewall investigators.

He also tried to destroy evidence, prosecutors said. The filing includes a series of photos of electronic equipment, including a tablet and an Xbox console, that he hurriedly smashed, then tossed in a dumpster near his home in North Dighton, Mass., before his arrest this month. A witness told the government that he threw his phone out the window of his truck as he was driving.

“These efforts appeared calculated to delay or prevent the government from gaining a full understanding of the seriousness and scale of his conduct,” the department wrote. “Any promise by the defendant to stay home or to refrain from compounding the harm that he has already caused is worth no more than his broken promises to protect classified national defense information.”

I don’t know if he’s in danger of defecting or whatever they think but he’s not a normal person and it’s probably a good idea to keep him under lock and key until his case is decided. He’s very weird, he likes guns and he liked to google mass shootings. Any one of those things might not mean anything but combine that with the illegal behavior online and his need to lead a strange little crew of misfits, and it just seems wise to keep him under wraps.

The smarter GOPers finally see that Trump isn’t going anywhere

Jonathan Martin, Politico’s answer to Maureen Dowd (when she was a snotty reporter) says that the GOP is starting to come to terms with the fact that they are stuck with Trump for another round. I have always thought so (barring some intervening event like Trump dropping dead on the golf course.) He addresses the biggest problem they face — the fact that Trump will never concede gracefully if he loses:

Just as progressives privately worried that Hillary Clinton and her party’s moderates would never truly embrace Bernie Sanders if he prevailed, many pessimistic Republicans wonder the same about Trump next year.

That ridiculous. The test was in 2008 when the delegate count in the primary was super, super close and yet Clinton endorsed Obama at the convention (saying “were you in it for me or were you in it for the country” to her disappointed followers) worked to get him elected and was then brought into the cabinet as Secretary of State. Both of the primaries in 2008 and 2016 were very tough (I hope to never relive them) but to assume that Clinton would never have “truly embraced” Sanders is typical. She would have been a good soldier as always and her followers would have come around. (I omitted his reference to Trump being the Hillary Clinton of 2024 because it’s stupid. )

Anyway:

It’s preposterous to imagine him, arms held aloft with DeSantis or whoever beats him, at a Unity Breakfast the morning after the nomination is decided. At best, Trump will be an irritant to who defeats him.

So why not, as Christie alluded to last week, stop fighting political gravity, submit to Trump and then, if he again loses, begin the Republican reformation in 2025. After all, it took Democrats three consecutive losses in the 1980s for the Democratic Leadership Council to finally gain traction and elevate one of their own in 1992.

Republicans would only have to suffer two White House defeats to finally move on from Trump and, in the meantime, there’s that Supreme Court majority he helped deliver as the political backstop.

As a shrewd Republican strategist, and no NeverTrumper, put it to me recently: “We’re just going to have to go into the basement, ride out the tornado and come back up when it’s over to rebuild the neighborhood.”

This Republican, as with a number of his like, has been hoping for a strong Trump alternative to emerge but has grown more pessimistic, DeSantis’ early stumbles confirming his doubts about the Florida governor. Moreover, there’s the matter of Roe being overturned and the political vise the party is caught in between its unyielding anti-abortion activists and a broader electorate that supports legal abortion. “We’re the dog that caught the car on Trump and abortion.”

So, yes, there are some doubts in GOP ranks about 2024. And not just from the self-hating type.

I would hope so. Trump has turned the GOP into a toxic waste dump and there’s no cleaning it up until he’s gone. And frankly, like all toxic waste dumps, it’s going to take years or perhaps it should be completely condemned.