Digby's Hullabaloo Posts

The Bulwark’s Tim Miller went to the TPUSA pre-Christmas “Gathering of the MAGAlos” as he does every year. He’s very brave:

I was standing beside the step-and-repeat at James O’Keefe’s annual AmFest afterparty nursing a bourbon and coke when out of the corner-of-my-eye emerged a face that was mostly familiar, minus the signature sepia blur. The face was approaching fast. Wide TV anchor smile. Caked on make-up. Main-character energy.

I quickly realized I was in its sights.

Immediately I’m greeted with the familiar booming, midwestern-announcer voice. Knowing that I was on enemy turf I attempted a pleasant return greeting, hoping to disarm and signal that I came in peace.

“DON’T TOUCH ME,” Kari Lake screams in my face, I assume in reference to a bit of discomfort with mid-interview physical contact that I had expressed in our last encounter. “YOU ARE A PIECE OF SHIT.”

The face briefly collects itself and appears to look back and see if her husband was taping the exchange. One of the many observers of the scene—and let me tell you, it was a SCENE—later told me that they thought Cameraman Lake had missed the approach, possibly the cause of Kari’s decision to double back for more.

She turns back around.

“You are a piece of shit!” she repeats over, and over, and over, and over, and over, staring up at me with increasing rage in her eyes and at times pinching my arm like an angry grandmother.1 Lake goes on to make a series of other accusations about my integrity. Among them: That I don’t care about “fentanyl mothers,” that I am a “fake news” “liar,” and that I was hiding my signature pearl necklace underneath a button up shirt. (On this last count, at least, I can conclusively say that she was incorrect. )

The attack subsided when an unlikely peace-maker emerged from the growing crowd of onlookers: The right-wing conspiracist Laura Loomer, who you may recall as the Trump hanger-on who briefly became a lightning rod during the 2024 campaign. Loomer made her way through the crowd of onlookers, stood next to Lake and echoed her assessment that I was a lying POS, but in a tone that was more appropriate for a public gathering. Loomer’s calm-disdain-mixed-with-curiosity about my presence seemed to cause Lake’s manic rage to peter out.

Throughout Kari’s tirade, I think I mostly smiled awkwardly. Though who can say. Unless she releases the video, I can’t be sure what I looked like. I remember looking around at my surroundings with low-grade anxiety and trying to assess whether this was real life or if I had mistakenly taken a hallucinogenic gummy. A few times I attempted to congratulate Lake on her new role as the nominee to be the director of the Voice Of America. At first I was trying to de-escalate, but eventually I confess that I was mocking her.

The rest is just as good. And he notes something that I’ve been sort of seeing on social media:

The Lake exchange, while frivolous and a quite a bit cray, was telling. Her behavior was the most unhinged—by far—of anyone I encountered. But it reflected the broader vibe I got from the attendees: People just didn’t seem as happy and fulfilled as I expected.

They just can’t be happy. That goes against their entire ethos. They just have to be mad or they don’t feel alive. (I wrote about this phenomenon after Trump won in 2016.)

The best they can come up with is:

They just don’t know what to do when they win:

Then there were the speeches from the main stage, where the crowd reaction was tepid compared to last year. You could sense the speakers searching for material that would generate some heat. Many settled on talking about how this year proved that God was on Trump’s side and that His hand had emerged from the heavens to protect him on that field in Butler. (This bit was well received.)

But in years past the real juice had come from defining foes. The crowd would get rabid as speakers railed against the deep state, and the election thieves, and Dementia Joe. Kamabla. The Never Trumpers. Kevin McCarthy. The Establishment RINO Cucks. The Muslims. The Killer Migrants. The Trans people who worked in the Biden Administration. Etc. Etc.

The problem for speaker’s this year is that most of their enemies have been defeated and are down bad. And sure, some of us got kicked around a bit on stage to standard applause. But the rabidity was missing. Turns out that it’s hard to get it up for kicking the wounded donkey.

They are tired of winning, I guess. The libs have been owned so they just don’t have any reason for being.

The Washington Post sounds an alarm about the erosion of press freedom. They outline all the cases that are pending and the collapse of the ABC case, all of which sounds pretty bad when you see it all together. They seem to be serious.

It is hardly unusual for a president to clash with the press. Richard M. Nixon kept journalists on his enemies list, while his vice president, Spiro Agnew, dubbed them “nattering nabobs of negativism.” Bill Clinton griped about coverage of his White House sex scandal, and Barack Obama’s administration brought a record number of prosecutions against journalists’ sources for leaking government information.

But legal experts say Trump has taken attacks on the press to an entirely new level, softening the ground for an erosion of robust press freedom.

“The Fake News Media should pay a big price for what they have done to our once great Country,” Trump posted on Truth Social in September in an attack on NBC News.

Experts in polarization said that Trump’s posture toward the press has eroded trust in the Fourth Estate. From the Oval Office, he can do even more.

“My concern is what he does when he has the power of the U.S. government in his hands,” said Liliana Hall Mason, a political science professor at the University of Maryland. “It looks to me like all the guardrails have been removed, and we are in for a presidency unlike any we’ve experienced before.””

One of the articles I read about the ABC case (which I can’t seem to find now unfortunately) said that the corporate legal suits were very nervous about the Florida judge who was hearing the case. Apparently, they interpreted her earlier rulings to be a little bit eccentric and not in a good way. I got the sense they thought there was a little Aileen Cannon energy.

Whether that’s just rationalization, I don’t know. it’s very possible the cave was just another gesture to the Dear Leader from Disney, which was already feeling a little bit vulnerable after the DeSantis business. But reading it did remind me that that with judge shopping being so prevalent and so many hardcore right wing judges on the bench from Trump’s first term, it might be smart to recognize that all the assurance we hear from the various legal beagles that the suits or indictments can’t possibly be found to have merit in the courts may not be taking that into account. With Clarence Thomas talking about overturning NY Times v. Sullivan defamation case, who knows what might happen? The courts are a very weak guardrail at the moment.

Someone got an earful from someone last night…

I’m guessing someone told him about the fees and he got all excited and happy that he has something new to complain about. But he obviously subbed out this tweet to a donor or adviser because it’s far too coherent. I think what the important Heather said was correct:

In the old days I would have said Steve Bannon but I’m not sure who it is today. One thing we can be sure of is that Trump isn’t reading anything. Unless it’s the Classic Comics version of the McKinley era.

It sure seems as though Trump is on an expansionist tear these days. Personally I expect that the pending Mexico invasion is the most likely but who knows? Maybe someone should tell him to colonize Alaska. He almost certainly doesn’t know it’s already a state.

Update —

Of course. It’s revenge:

And vampire squids

Some friends and stilletto-sharp thinkers lately are busy discussing the meaning and implications of Cory Doctorow’s “enshittification.” ICYMI, Macquarie Dictionary declared it the word of the year, defined as: “The gradual deterioration of a service or product brought about by a reduction in the quality of service provided, especially of an online platform, and as a consequence of profit-seeking.”

As Doctorow explained a couple of years back:

Here is how platforms die: first, they are good to their users; then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers; finally, they abuse those business customers to claw back all the value for themselves. Then, they die.

I call this enshittification, and it is a seemingly inevitable consequence arising from the combination of the ease of changing how a platform allocates value, combined with the nature of a “two sided market,” where a platform sits between buyers and sellers, holding each hostage to the other, raking off an ever-larger share of the value that passes between them.

Dave Roberts (a.k.a. Dr. Volts) spoke with Doctorow a couple of weeks ago on how enshittification is impacting the right to repair, monopoly power, and the clean energy economy:

But you know, products you pay for get rampantly enshittified — like, you know, John Deere tractors and iPhones and EVs, these are not free. And paying for the product does not make you not the product. Right? It’s, you know, payment is not like a consumer loyalty program where if you pay, suddenly the venal, callow tech-boss suddenly thinks you’re worthy of dignity and respect and stops screwing you. Tech bosses screw you if they can. And right now, we are at a point where they can. So, in this second phase, things are made worse for these platform’s business customers as well.

If you are in the mood to chew through your cheek about that this morning, read “Never Forgive Them,” the Sunday-length installment on enshittification and the Rot Economy at Ed Zitron’s Where’s Your Ed At. Doctorow will at the end of his interview at least provide an escape hatch to computer users enslaved by Microsoft or Apple and for-profit online platforms.

I spent a career in consulting work for national and international clients whose products you likely own and use. I’d bet money I’ve been on the inside of more factories than 99 percent of you where they make everything from clothes to paper to tires to plastic to biotech medicines to the white-powder Ms on your M&M’S®. Nevertheless, I am a bad capitalist. I don’t object to capitalism, per se. I just object to the enshittified version that, as Matt Taibbi once wrote, behaves today like “a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money.”

Now that oligarch-branded capitalism has a stranglehold on our freedoms. It is strangling values like fairness and privacy like an infant in a crib, and enshittifying your experience of being an American.

Not to cast shade on my many friends on Substack (Roberts is there), but I’m rather fond of Digby’s old-school approach to delivering content for readers here. It’s free. There are no paywalls, no ads, pop-up or otherwise. Subscribing is voluntary, donating is voluntary. Nobody’s trying to extract value from your attention without your consent. What a concept?

We trust your experience here is not gradually deteriorating.
Happy Hollandaise!

Whether you’ve been bad or good

IYKYK: The South lost the Civil War but won Reconstruction, neutered the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments across the South, and maintained a rigid system of Jim Crow oppression for the next 100 years.

IYKYK: Each July 4th, we celebrate America’s war to overthrow rule by hereditary royalty and landed gentry and to create on these shores democratic self-rule … plus a little slavery to appease the South’s economic royalty.

Like the Civil War, the American Revolution now seems to have failed. Is there any doubt?

Former bartender, Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York, doesn’t think so. Her Instagram followers asked about American oligarchy, and one oligarch in particular from the South (Africa).

AOC: “Oh, I don’t think we’re witnessing the START of an oligarchy. I think we are fully here.”

@aoc

Answering questions over on Instagram tonight – @aoc

♬ original sound – Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

AOC: “Republicans don’t know who their Daddy is.”

@aoc

Answering questions over on instagram tonight – @aoc

♬ original sound – Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Democrats might have had AOC as ranking member of the House Oversight Committee next year. What happened there?

“What we are looking at here is oligarchy”

Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders could teach a master class in class politics. He sees it too.

Sanders: “My friends, what we are looking at here has nothing to do with democracy. What we are looking at here is oligarchy. This is up and up government by the billionaire class, for the billionaire class.”

Sanders: “What we are dealing with right now is that the billionaire class, which owns so much of our economy, which owns so much of our media, they are now moving aggressively to own our political system as well.”

Ten years ago to the day, I commented on an interview with historian Steve Fraser in which he warned about this second Gilded Age:

Bill Moyers’ guest, historian Steve Fraser, deconstructs how the second Gilded Age differs from the first. Then, people banded together and rose up to challenge their newfound serfdom. But these are “acquiescent times,” says Fraser. We live in a fable of capitalism as “a democracy of the audacious who will make it on their own, while in fact most of the people are headed in the opposite direction.”

Then on Christmas Eve in 2014, I returned to Fraser’s comments:

What Milton Friedman called capitalism in 1962 looks more like an economic cult today. Question the basic assumptions behind corporate capitalism, publicly point out its shortcomings and suggest we are overdue for an upgrade, and the Chamber of Commerce practically bursts through the door like the Spanish Inquisition to accuse you of communism and heresy. Why you … you want to punish success! It’s weirdly reflexive and a mite hysterical. What their blind fealty and knee-jerk defense of this one particular style for organizing a capitalist enterprise says about them, I’ll leave for now. It suffices to say I find it rather peculiar.

We think we invented capitalism. Yet there have been “capitalist acts between consenting adults”* since before Hammurabi. We don’t call one capitalist enterprise the world’s oldest profession for nothing. There’s a restaurant in China that has been in operation for nearly 1000 years. And pubs in England that have been in business for 900. All without being incorporated in Delaware or the Cayman Islands. (Communists?)

The fetish for the current economic model isn’t about money or ideology, but, like The Matrix, about control. For some and not for others. Working people in the first Gilded Age, says Fraser, “summoned up a kind of political will and the political imagination” to civilize capitalism,” to say to themselves, “we are not fated to live this way.”

Now, corporate capitalism is pretty successful at what it does. But then, so is kudzu, another invasive species. I used to live on the edge of a field of kudzu. In the summer, I had to cut it back with a machete each week to keep it from taking over my yard and eating my house. On those hot, summer afternoons, not once did a passing neighbor wag a finger in my face and accuse me of “punishing success.”

Corporate capitalism has become an invasive species that has taken over government of, by, and for the People. Sen. Elizabeth Warren very publicly called out one such creeping pest recently. She suggested it was time we cut it back. She’s right.

We upgrade our hardware and software every couple of years. When was the last time capitalism got a new operating system? And what might that look like?

We’d damned well better start answering those questions or the Elon Musks and Lords of Silicon Valley will answer them for us. Corporate capitalism and our teetering republic need upgrading, but nearly half the country is just fine with being ruled instead of governing themselves. What’s it going to take for that to sink in? Making our oligarchs wear powdered wigs?

Is that lump in your stocking or in your throat?

We’re not giving up if you’re not.
Happy Hollandaise!

Happy Solstice! I thought I’d whip up a wintry mix of (literally) cool tunes to celebrate the shortest day of the year (buck up, little camper…we’ll start gaining daylight tomorrow). So for a much-needed mental health break…turn off the news, fix yourself a nice cup of hot chocolate (or kick it up a notch), dim all the lights, cozy up in front of the fireplace (real or virtual), don your favorite noise-cancelling headphones and (if I may quote from a Styx song) let the melody just drift your cares away.

California Dreamin’ – The Mamas & the Papas

A Hazy Shade of Winter– Simon & Garfunkel

Waiting for the Winter – Popguns

Theme from “Due South” – Jay Semko

Rangers at Midnight – Crack the Sky

A Winter’s Tale – Jade Warrior

Wintertime Love – The Doors

Sometimes in Winter – Blood, Sweat, & Tears

Song of the Evergreens – Chicago

Superwoman – Stevie Wonder

Snowflake – Kate Bush

Winter Wine – Caravan

Northern Lights – Renaissance

Winter in the Country – Cleaners From Venus

Ring Out, Solstice Bells – Jethro Tull

Explore more of my mixtapes (and movie reviews) in the Den of Cinema archives

— Dennis Hartley

If you’re in the mood to read something a little bit heavy tonight (I understand if you aren’t) I recommend this interesting piece by JV Last at the Bulwark. Unfortunately, they don’t offer a gift link option but I’ll give you an excerpt that I hope gets the point across:

The dream of the internet was that it would create a high-information, high-trust society. Technology was supposed to make facts and primary sources immediately available to everyone, thereby ushering in an age of rationality and data-driven decision-making.

If you lived in Bumblefuck, Missouri, the internet meant that you were no longer beholden to the limited stream of news provided by your local paper, three broadcast networks, and assorted cable news players. You’d be able to see the information with your own eyes.

Instead of relying on a small number of information gatekeepers, you now had direct access to data. So you no longer had to rely on what the media told you about, say, crime. You could pull up the FBI crime stats and look at the numbers with your own eyes.

But it hasn’t worked out that way.

The internet has made all of that data readily available to people. And it turns out that often there is too much of it and it is too complicated for normal non-experts to understand. But the bigger problem has been the sheer volume of noise that the internet gave rise to. The noise overwhelmed the information, accelerating the decline in trust in institutions. The net effect was to make the populace as a whole less tethered to facts and data—and more animated by folk stories and something like an oral tradition.

[…]

This Matt Pearce essay brought me up short because it hits on a truth so profound that I can’t believe it never occurred to me before:

The result of all of this [changing economics of media] is a growing consumer alienation from the actual sources of information, a return to a kind of folk-story society ripe for manipulation by demagogues who promise simplicity in an increasingly complex world.

This. This is it, right there.

We are now a folk-story society. The drones. The immigrants eating cats and dogs. The crime wave and “economic hardships” that haven’t been real since 2022. It’s all folklore. Stories that a post-literate people pass on to one another in the oral tradition.

I cannot recommend Pearce’s essay enough. You should read it all.

Basically, the vast majority of what we come across on the internet is bullshit.

I think is also probably correct:

Pearce’s big insight is that this new world is ripe for demagogues because they thrive in societies that run on folk stories. The demagogue’s lies spread from person to person and even if the demagogue is conclusively exposed as a liar, no one believes the exposure

If liberal society is an organism, a demagogue is a virus. The demagogue takes advantage of the freedoms afforded by liberalism to attack the host. Sometimes, if the demagogue is virulent enough, it can kill the society.

Over time, liberal societies build up antibodies to demagogues. The accumulation of such antibodies are one reason that the longer a liberal society endures, the more likely it is to survive challenges. Relatively new liberal societies are vulnerable because they have not had the time to build up antibodies. Old liberal societies are more robust. These antibodies come in many forms: laws, traditions, institutions, civil society, an independent media.

We once hoped that the technological revolutions of the information age would become another antibody; another layer of protection. But it hasn’t worked out that way. Instead, it’s clear that the current state of technology has been like a radiation dose that kills off antibodies and compromises the organism’s immune system—in this case, leaving our society more vulnerable to demagogues than it has been in generations.

The one thing I think might be a factor here that Last doesn’t mention is the power of celebrity in all this. I have to wonder if that isn’t fuelling this demagoguery as much as anything. If that’s so, there might be a way to challenge the demagogues. Celebrity comes in many different shapes and sizes.

I’ll admit that when I heard about these people taking videos of constellations and planes and freaking out because they thought they were alien drones made me think of primitives looking up at the sky and seeing god’s and monsters in those lights. We really are going backwards.

Since it’s Saturday, I thought I would take a few minutes to talk about my pal Dennis Hartley who’s been holding down Saturday nights here at Hullabaloo for the last 18 years. I’ve actually known Dennis since I was a teenager and we were growing up in Fairbanks Alaska. We (mis)spent some of our 20s in San Francisco whiling away hours and hours in the fantastic repertory movie theaters that were numerous in all the big cities in those days. (This was before you could pretty much find every film ever made just by asking Mr Google.) In those days they had film addict types curating the bookings, which changed every day, and you could see classic film programs, foreign films and offbeat independents on huge screens in big, old movie palaces any day of the week. We devoured them. It was an incredible education in the art of film.

Dennis went on to pursue a career in comedy and radio in Seattle and I ended up in LA working in the movie business but we’ve stayed in touch and Dennis has remained a film hound on a level I couldn’t keep up with. His personal collection is probably bigger than most film schools at this point.

Anyway, back in 2006 I had been reading Dennis’s film reviews on film forums online for a while and the bright idea occurred to me that he should write them for my readership who might like to have a break from politics on the weekend. Saturday Night at the Movies was born.

He’s become well-known for his “lists” of films which he curates in much the same way those film bookers used to do the programs in the old repertory houses back in the day. And as it happens, he’s also a musician with a huge music collection which he has often shared as his “mixtapes” (or as the kids say “playlist.”)

One of my favorite blog stories is about the time Dennis was trying to get accredited for a film festival, as he does every year, and one of them denied him entry. He told me about it and I asked him, “should we sic the readers on them?” He said sure and I put out the word. Some very important people in the film business who happened to be readers wrote to the festival asking them to let Dennis attend. The next morning they contacted him and suddenly they just couldn’t be more accommodating.

The running joke between us has been that people came into the office that morning, opened up their emails and all exclaimed in unison, “who the fuck is Dennis Hartley?” He’s never been denied since.

Anyway, it’s been a privilege sharing this space with him all these years and I’m so happy that I could share his film and music knowledge with all of you.

Happy Hollandaise everyone!

Imagine that.

Will Stancil wrote on Bluesky:” Look either the entire US economy turned around sometime in the month of November, or the economy really was great and we’ve just been mainlining media doomerism all along.” Uh yeah.

Paul Krugman:

…Anyway, there has been a running debate over why Americans were giving the economy negative reviews. One side argued that it was about perception rather than reality — that we were in a “vibecession,” Kyla Scanlon’s brilliant coinage. After all, wages for most workers have significantly outpaced inflation since the eve of the pandemic:

The other view was that the data were missing important ways in which Americans’ economic position had worsened. For example, interest rates, say on car loans, aren’t included in the CPI.

And of course there are many families in America struggling to make ends meet. But that has always been true. I mean, almost 22 million workers were laid off in 2019, which most people remember as a good year, and not all of them landed on their feet.

The vibes guys, a group that included yours truly, pointed to a lot of evidence suggesting that while Americans had a negative view of the national economy, they had a much more positive view of their own financial situation, while rating their local economy, which they could some extent observe directly, much more positively than that of the nation as a whole. You could see this, for example, in the Federal Reserve’s survey of the Economic Well-Being of U.S. Households:

You could see it even more clearly in a Wall Street Journal survey reported by Greg Ip:

You could summarize public opinion as being “I’m doing OK, people I know or see around me are doing OK, but I hear that really bad things are happening somewhere out there.”

One sticking point for the vibes story, however, has been that while people have generally told pollsters that they’re doing OK, many surveys — notably the venerable Michigan Consumer Survey — have shown at least a plurality of Americans saying that they’re worse off than they were five years ago.

Now, I’ve always had my suspicions about these results. Are people answering this question reliable narrators? Obviously people who have gotten either much richer or much poorer over the past five years know it. But if you don’t fall into those categories, do you really know without looking it up how much money you made in 2019? You know that prices have risen, but have you kept a diary that lets you compare that price increase with the wage increase you’ve also probably experienced?

So I was curious to see what the first post-election Michigan survey would say. We know that there are strong partisan effects on overall consumer sentiment; supporters of both parties feel better about the economy when their party is in power, but Republicans swing much more strongly than Democrats.

Does the same effect apply to people’s assessment of their own financial condition?

Oh yes it does. The economy now isn’t significantly different from what it was just before the election; economic conditions were fairly stable in late 2019. Yet suddenly a plurality of respondents to the Michigan survey say that they’re better off than they were five years ago.

Yep. That’s the survey featured at the top of the post. To me that just shows that the “vibes” were mostly created by the endless pessimistic media feedback loop that turned into conventional wisdom.

I will never understand it but Trump just makes some people feel good. I have my suspicions about why that is but it’s so misanthropic that I don’t feel like going there right now. It’s not a very nice observation about my fellow Americans and it’s Christmas time.

Good, good, good, good vibrations…

And yes he should

I’ve been hoping he would do this since the day he got elected:

President Biden is considering commuting the sentences of most, if not all, of the 40 men on the federal government’s death row, people familiar with the matter said, a move that would frustrate President-elect Donald Trump’s ability to resume the rapid pace of executions that marked his first term.

A broad coalition of religious and civil-rights groups has been pressing Biden to take the step, and the effort gained momentum earlier this month after Pope Francis, in his weekly address, prayed for the commutation of America’s condemned inmates. If their death sentences were commuted, the prisoners, all convicted of murder, would serve life without parole. Biden, a devout Catholic, spoke with Francis on Thursday and is scheduled to meet with him at the Vatican next month, the White House said. 

A decision from the president could come by Christmas, some of the people said. A principal question is whether the president should issue a blanket commutation of all the condemned men, or whether death sentences should remain for the most heinous convicts, these people said. 

A White House spokesman said that no final decision had been made. 

Attorney General Merrick Garland, who oversees federal prisons, has recommended that Biden commute all but a handful of the sentences, the people familiar with the matter said, excepting a few terrorism and hate-crimes cases. The Justice Department had no immediate comment.

Possible exceptions could include Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, convicted in the 2013 Boston Marathon bombing that killed three and wounded more than 250 others, Robert Bowers, who killed 11 people in the 2018 attack on the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh, and Dylann Roof, who in 2015 killed nine at the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, S.C.

On his way out of office Trump executed a whole bunch of federal prisoners within just a couple of weeks. It was one of the most grotesque parting shots he made and that’s saying something when you consider the Big Lie and January 6th. Biden needs to save the rest of them.

I actually think he should give clemency to all of them, even those hideous mass murderers. The reason is that the death penalty is immoral and it is immoral for the state to execute those murderous sociopaths who cannot be allowed to walk among us.

Biden is a very committed Catholic and he is close to meeting his maker. He will never run for anything and he has no offspring or other family that is set to follow in his footsteps. He has no reason to care about the political ramifications. This is purely a matter of principle and he needs to save those people from the bloodthirsty Trump regardless of the criticism he will almost certainly get from the right (and probably establishment Democrats who are desperate for Real American credit.)

It’s the right thing to do. Just do it Joe!