The Ronald Reagan States of America
Via Catch.com, I found the awesome, majestic Ronald Reagan Circle in Tarnow, Poland, courtesy of “The Legacy Project.”
I agree that we should have one of these in every single town in America! How could we do any less than this for the greatest president America has, no — the greatest leader the world has ever known.
A fitting, fitting tribute. Thanks Grover.
“He looked frightened”
Brad DeLong has a must read post up featuring an e-mail from a reader who heard Sy Hersh give a lecture at the University of Chicago.
DeLong says:
If what it reports is true, then once again it looks like the Bush administration is worse than I had imagined–even though I thought I had taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is always worse than one imagines. Either Seymour Hersh is insane, or we have an administration that needs to be removed from office not later than the close of business today.
Your terrorist has no regard for human life. Not even his own.
I missed his show last night and didn’t get a chance until just now to catch it, but I just have to say, “bless you Jon Stewart.”
He’s the only voice I’ve heard outside the blogosphere who shows the proper incredulity that the United States of America is actually having a national debate about whether we should legally torture people, a large number of whom don’t seem to be guilty of anything more than being at the wrong place and the wrong time.
9/11 was bad. But, we don’t have to go this far. This War On Terror has gone completely over the top and it’s getting frighteningly Kubrickian.
I honestly don’t think we could have had a worse administration to be in power during a terrorist attack. Bin Laden was very lucky that he waited until he had a president who would overreact to such an extent that we’d destroy ourselves almost immediately. Now he knows that all he has to do is pop up and say boo once in a while and we’ll go all to pieces.
Q: Mr. President, I wanted to return to the question of torture. What we’ve learned from these memos this week is that the Department of Justice lawyers and the Pentagon lawyers have essentially worked out a way that U.S. officials can torture detainees without running afoul of the law. So when you say that you want the U.S. to adhere to international and U.S. laws, that’s not very comforting. This is a moral question: Is torture ever justified?
BUSH: Look, I’m going to say it one more time. Maybe I can be more clear. The instructions went out to our people to adhere to law. That ought to comfort you.
We’re a nation of law. We adhere to laws. We have laws on the books. You might look at these laws. And that might provide comfort for you. And those were the instructions from me to the government.
Makes you proud to be an American to have a snotty, little asshole of a president refuse to say whether he thinks torture is immoral.
But, why should any of us be surprised:
From: “Devil May Care” by Tucker Carlson, Talk Magazine, September 1999, p. 106
“Bush’s brand of forthright tough-guy populism can be appealing, and it has played well in Texas. Yet occasionally there are flashes of meanness visible beneath it.
While driving back from the speech later that day, Bush mentions Karla Faye Tucker, a double murderer who was executed in Texas last year. In the weeks before the execution, Bush says, Bianca Jagger and a number of other protesters came to Austin to demand clemency for Tucker. ‘Did you meet with any of them?’ I ask.
Bush whips around and stares at me. ‘No, I didn’t meet with any of them,’ he snaps, as though I’ve just asked the dumbest, most offensive question ever posed. ‘I didn’t meet with Larry King either when he came down for it. I watched his interview with [Tucker], though. He asked her real difficult questions, like ‘What would you say to Governor Bush?’ ‘What was her answer?’ I wonder.
‘Please,’ Bush whimpers, his lips pursed in mock desperation, ‘don’t kill me.’
I must look shocked — ridiculing the pleas of a condemned prisoner who has since been executed seems odd and cruel, even for someone as militantly anticrime as Bush — because he immediately stops smirking.
‘It’s tough stuff,’ Bush says, suddenly somber, ‘but my job is to enforce the law.’ As it turns out, the Larry King-Karla Faye Tucker exchange Bush recounted never took place, at least not on television. During her interview with King, however, Tucker did imply that Bush was succumbing to election-year pressure from pro-death penalty voters. Apparently Bush never forgot it. He has a long memory for slights.” [Carlson, Talk, 9/99]
And he always has been a nasty little fucker, too.
First, Do No Harm
In this NY Times op-ed, called Physician, Turn Thyself In, the writer alerts us to another phenomenon that I have wondered about of late concerning torture — the role of the medical profession.
I wrote about this earlier in this post back on May 22nd, in which I excerpted this NY Times article:
Much of the evidence of abuse at the prison came from medical documents. Records and statements show doctors and medics reporting to the area of the prison where the abuse occurred several times to stitch wounds, tend to collapsed prisoners or see patients with bruised or reddened genitals.
Two doctors recognized that a detainee’s shoulder was hurt because he had his arms handcuffed over his head for what they said was “a long period.” They gave him an injection of painkiller, and sent him to an outside hospital for what appeared to be a dislocated shoulder, but did not report any suspicions of abuse. One medic, Staff Sgt. Reuben Layton, told investigators that he had found the detainee handcuffed in the same position on three occasions, despite instructing Specialist Graner to free the man.
“I feel I did the right thing when I told Graner to get the detainee uncuffed from the bed,” Sergeant Layton told investigators.
Sergeant Layton also said he saw Specialist Graner hitting a metal baton against the leg wounds of a detainee who had been shot. He did not report that incident.
Sgt. Neil Wallin, another medic, recorded on Nov. 14: “Patient has blood down front of clothes and sandbag over head,” noting three wounds requiring 13 stitches, above his eye, on his nose and on his chin.
Sergeant Wallin later told investigators that when he got to the prison: “I observed blood on the wall near a metal weld, which I believed to be the place where the detainee received his injury. I do not know how he was injured or if it was done by himself or another.”
He also told investigators that he had seen male detainees forced to wear women’s underwear and that he had seen a video in which a prisoner known to smear himself with his own feces repeatedly banged his head against the wall, “very hard.”
Helga Margot Aldape-Moreno, a nurse, told investigators that in September she reported to the cell to tend to a prisoner having a panic attack, and that, opening the door, she saw naked Iraqis in a human pyramid, with sandbags over their heads. Military police officers were yelling at the detainees, she said.
Ms. Aldape-Moreno tended to the prisoner, she said, then left the room and did not report what she saw until the investigation began in January.
Today, the Washington Post reports that interrogators have been given access to detainee’s medical files, presumably so that information contained therein can be used to extract information. Accroding to medical ethicists interviewed for the story, this is strictly and unequivocally unethical:
How military interrogators used the information is unknown. But a previously undisclosed Defense Department memo dated Oct. 9 cites Red Cross complaints that the medical files “are being used by interrogators to gain information in developing an interrogation plan.” Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller, the commander of the facility at the time, denied the allegations, according to the memo.
[…]
An account pieced together from confidential documents and sources familiar with the matter shows that a Red Cross team discovered the sharing of the medical records in a visit to the Guantanamo Bay medical facility in mid-2003, during Miller’s tenure there.
The Red Cross team’s task, repeated at prisons throughout the world, was to assess how the complex’s medical facility functioned. The medical team studied equipment and treatment options, speaking with detainees and U.S. military medical staff. Other Red Cross experts monitored other aspects of prison life.
The team’s mission was not to treat detainees, but to ensure that they received adequate care. If a prisoner had persistent headaches, was he able to see a doctor? If he suffered from psychological problems — 21 captives have tried to kill themselves at Guantanamo Bay — was he receiving treatment?
U.S. military doctors told Red Cross medics that interrogators had access to prisoners’ medical records, according to two people knowledgeable about the issue who demanded anonymity because details of the interrogations and Red Cross monitoring are kept secret. As one source said, the doctors “were very honest about that” and “some people expressed concern.”
Daryl Matthews, a civilian psychiatrist who visited Guantanamo Bay in May 2003 at the invitation of the Pentagon as part of a medical review team, described the prisoners’ records generated by military physicians as similar to those kept by civilian physicians. Matthews said they contain names, nationalities, and histories of physical and psychological problems, as well as notes about current complaints and prescriptions.
Matthews said an individual’s records would routinely list psychologists’ comments about conditions such as phobias, as well as family details, including the names and ages of a spouse or children.
Such information, he said, would give interrogators “tremendous power” over prisoners. Matthews said he was disturbed that his team, which issued a generally favorable report on the base’s medical facility, was not told patient records were shared with interrogators.
Asked what use nonmedical personnel could make of the files, he replied: “Nothing good.”
The practice made some military medical workers at Guantanamo Bay uncomfortable. “Not everyone was unified on this,” said one person aware of the situation. “It creates a tension. You have people with many different opinions.”
There is another aspect of this that is also troublesome, aside from the apparent lack of professional ethics on the part of all the participants, is the fact that there appears to be drugs being used to coerce information or confessions and it seems likely that medical professionals are taking part in the administration of them.
Various reports from those who were detained either in Afghanistan and let go or transported to Guantanamo from other places bring this up over and over again. According to the Washington Post’s analysis of the torture memo:
The law says torture can be caused by administering or threatening to administer “mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the sense of personality.” The Bush lawyers advised, though, that it “does not preclude any and all use of drugs” and “disruption of the senses or personality alone is insufficient” to be illegal. For involuntarily administered drugs or other psychological methods, the “acts must penetrate to the core of an individual’s ability to perceive the world around him,” the lawyers found.
We have apparently been operating on this premise, because there have quite a few accounts of drugs being forcibly used on prisoners:
“Finally, on 1 May, he was dressed in goggles and an orange jump suit, injected with a sedative and flown to Guantanamo Bay.” The Guardian May 16, 2004
“Mr. Shah alleged that the Americans had given him injections and tablets prior to interrogations. ‘They used to tell me I was mad,’ the 23-year-old told the BBC in his native village in Dir district near the Afghan border. ‘I was given injections at least four or five times as well as different tablets. I don’t know what they were meant for.'” BBC May 22, 2004
“Many detainees were given regular injections, after which ‘they would just sit there like in a daze and sometimes you would see them shaking’. He [al-Harith] said he was beaten and put in isolation because he refused injections and was sometimes forcibly given unidentified drugs.” Sun Herald (Sydney) March 14, 2004 Sunday
“A British detainee recently released from Guantanamo Bay has said that Habib had told him he had been subjected to beatings, electric shocks and injected with drugs while in Egypt.” The Age (Melbourne) May 24, 2004
“A team of intelligence service psychiatrists, psychologists, behavioural scientists and psychoanalysts known as “the specialists” have prepared a detailed study of how the interrogators can break him…Truth drugs will be administered intravenously shortly before Saddam’s interrogation begins – probably in the new year. Drugs were used early on in their captivity on Taliban and al-Qaeda prisoners at Guantanamo Bay to try to discover where Osama bin Laden is hiding.” The Advertiser December 20, 2003
The good news is that we are being “compassionate conservatives.” Despite the fact that virtually eveyone (except for General Ripper) admits that there has been almost no good intelligence gleaned from the prisoners in Guantanamo and even our own soldiers have been beaten severely in training exercizes, we can rest assured that the medical personnel are looking after the prisoners well being:
In the last six weeks alone, he said, three inmates have tried to hang themselves in their cells with camp-issued “comfort items” such as towels and sheets, and another tried to slit his wrists with a plastic razor. None has succeeded.
Hoey said camp doctors are treating some detainees for psychological disorders and have administered antidepressants and antipsychotic drugs.
The Agenda
I’m sure many blog readers, like me, spend an inordinate amount of time reading about current events. The Iraq war, terrorism, a presidential election and all the other stories, many of which I barely have time to skim, much less write about or even think much about, all start to run into one another in my mind after a while. It becomes a sort of pageant for my amusement on some level, an entertainment from which I find interesting nuggets to amuse myself and my readers and friends. I’m laughing about silly things and ranting about outrageous things and it all becomes part of one long continuous comment that loses meaning with each pithy little observation I add to it.
And then I read something that shocks me, which is not easy to do since it seems that everything is, or should be, shocking on one level or another these days.
This torture memo (pdf) shocked me. And it shocked me not because of its endorsement of torture, we knew something about that already, indeed we’ve seen pictures of it. No, strangely, it shocked me because it was the product of a bureaucratic “working group” and it was delivered in the dry prose of a government report on the legality of setting aside an executive order on train travel requirements. But this “working group,” consisting of lawyers from throughout the executive branch, was tasked with something a little bit different than your average government project. Its job was defining the legal limits of the president’s authority to order people to be tortured.
They had meetings at which I’m sure they all believed very sincerely that they were doing important work on the War on Terror. I’m sure they worked long hours and diligently analyzed the law and offered their advice to the president and secretary of defense with nothing but the good of the country in their minds. And they produced a 50+ page paper from which, I understand, only one person — the state department representative — dissented.
And that report, this product of a bureaucratic “working group” of lawyers is so deeply depraved and contrary to American values that one wonders if at any time during the discussions if someone had stood up and said, “we’re talking about TORTURE for God’s sake!” they would have produced a report at all.
Perhaps they wouldn’t have. But, more importantly, I seriously doubt that anyone stood up and said such a thing. After all, this was being dryly discussed in the op-ed pages of major newspapers and in the weekly magazines as if it were just another method of warfare — like terrorism itself. I’m sure these fine bureaucrats and political appointees believed they were doing their duty.
People are undoubtedly already in the process of wearing out the term “banality of evil” (if it has not already been trod over until its meaning is completely eradicated.) And I have already been taken to task by some who continue to believe that any comparison of the Bush administration to Naziism or totalitarianism in general is some sort of cheating. But, totalitarianism, incipient or full blown, has many features. Legal torture is one of them.
Here we have a “working group” of government lawyers tasked to find out what, if any, legal obstacles there are to presidential orders to torture prisoners in the war on terrorism. They found that the president of the United States has the unlimited power to set aside the laws of the land within his capacity as commander in chief. As has been noted by others, this general idea was explicit in the Nazi Fuehrerprinzip and is implied in what Republican legal theorists similarly like to call the “unitary executive.” The American government has, up to now, never openly embraced such a concept.
Michael Froomkin and other legal experts have examined the final product of this ‘working group” and found the legal reasoning seriously flawed as one might expect. Froomkin concludes his review with this:
If anyone in the higher levels of government acted in reliance on this advice, those persons should be impeached. If they authorized torture, it may be that they have committed, and should be tried for, war crimes. And, as we learned at Nuremberg, “I was just following orders” is NOT (and should not be) a defense.
Whatever the legal merits (and I’m sure Froomkin is correct — this is an abomination) there is something even more frightening at work, I believe, than following bad legal advice and committing a war crime. It’s the fact that a group of people working together from all different parts of our government came to this conclusion apparently without serious controversy.
I can’t get past the fact that this is the product of a “working group” of lawyers, all of them highly educated, presumably intelligent, decent hardworking Americans who love their country. And, not one of them resigned their post rather than participate in creating a legal justification for torture. And, it was not just an abstraction to them; they went into great detail about the precise amount of pain that was to be allowed. There are long passages in which the meaning of “severe pain” is discussed, the effect of long term mental damage is assessed and where the justification of the infliction of long term damage is defined as a matter of intent rather than result. The Washington Post describes it like this:
In the view expressed by the Justice Department memo, which differs from the view of the Army, physical torture “must be equivalent in intensity to the pain accompanying serious physical injury, such as organ failure, impairment of bodily function, or even death.” For a cruel or inhuman psychological technique to rise to the level of mental torture, the Justice Department argued, the psychological harm must last “months or even years.”
Under this definition you could for instance, shove bamboo shoots under someone’s fingernails, pull their hair out of their head in clumps or beat them with a hose. According to the memo, you can force hallucinogenic drugs on them. You can repeatedly threaten them or their families with death. The imagination is boundless under this definition. After all, who knows how another person experiences pain, and that is what underlies their definition of torture — how the victim experiences his pain.
What was the process by which they came to these dry legalistic definition of when, how and where on is allowed to inflict terrible pain as long as it doesn’t reach the level of intensity that would accompany serious physical injury or organ failure? Did they discuss this around a conference table over a take-out Chinese dinner? Did they all nod their heads and take notes and write memos and have conference calls and send e-mails on the subject of what exactly the definition of “severe pain” is? Did they take their kid to school on the way to the meeting in which they finalized a report that says the president of the United States has the unlimited authority to order the torture of anyone he wants? Did they tell jokes on the way out?
These nice people with nice backrounds and nice jobs spent weeks contemplating how to legally torture human beings. Then they went home and watched television and ate dinner and went to bed and made love to their wife or husband and got up and did it again because it was their job and their duty to find ways to legally justify it:
A former senior administration official involved in discussions about CIA interrogation techniques said Bush’s aides knew he wanted them to take an aggressive approach.
“He felt very keenly that his primary responsibility was to do everything within his power to keep the country safe, and he was not concerned with appearances or politics or hiding behind lower-level officials,” the official said. “That is not to say he was ready to authorize stuff that would be contrary to law. The whole reason for having the careful legal reviews that went on was to ensure he was not doing that.”
These last few days in which I’ve been pondering the unique horror I feel at this latest revelation, I was reminded (of all things) of a quote from George Will recently, in which he condemned the admnistration for being unable to think:
This administration be trusted to govern if it cannot be counted on to think and, having thought, to have second thoughts.
I doubt that Will intended anyone to make this connection to his phrase but it is, of course, the central thesis of Hannah Arendt’s Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil. Her observations of Eichman were of a “ludicrous” person defined by what she called his “thoughtlessness” as opposed to stupidity. He was filled with contradiction, spoke in nothing but bromides and cliches and believed that he had done his duty to the end. He was, in Arendt’s view, the perfect embodiment of the banality of evil. A company man, a bureaucrat, a regular guy, the kind of man who would join a “working group” to find legal justification for torture without having one second of stricken conscience about it. Indeed, he was too shallow, too dully conformist to ever question himself about anything and thus even have a conscience. Arendt expounded on this theme in “Thinking and Moral Considerations” in which she says:
Evil is a surface phenomenon, and instead of being radical, it is merely extreme. We resist evil by not being swept away by the surface of things, by stopping ourselves and beginning to think, that is, by reaching another dimension than the horizon of everyday life. In other words, the more superficial someone is, the more likely will he be to yield to evil. An indication of such superficiality is the use of clichés, and Eichmann, …was a perfect example.
These people who set about legalizing inhumane behavior on behalf of a president on whom they confer absolute power to order it at will are as shallow and evil as the cliché spouting president who demanded it. The slippery slope to totalitarianism started in a conference room where coffee and donuts and microsoft power point presentations on torture and pain were on the agenda one morning.
The Right Man For The Job
Demosthenes posits the theory that the executive power grab revealed by the WSJ yesterday is surprising only in the fact that it hasn’t happened before. He says it’s related to the weakness in our system that holds the head of government and the head of state in the same office.
When crises arise, then, there is both the opportunity and, lets face it, a clear desire for the head of state to “take charge and lead the people”. If the problems of politics get in the way, then the president has a nearly irresistable opportunity to sweep those “problems” away, which usually means “emergency powers” of some sort. Once gained, these powers are very rarely given up, as there are always new “crises” to exploit to retain them.
These sorts of events are incredibly common. In fact, they’re so common that the fact that the United States has never had this happen has baffled political scientists since the phenomenon was noticed. There are a number of theories as to why, but my own favorite stems from an American military tradition, which is that soldiers swear loyalty to the Constitution, not the president, despite being their “commander in chief”. One of the most treasured aspects of the American system is its balance of power between judiciary, executive and legislature; while its effectiveness can sometimes be questioned, it’s important in that it enshrines the idea that the United States is a country where the laws stand above the president; that the symbolic power of a head of state will never confer absolute power upon him. “L’etat c’est moi” does not apply. It is, perhaps, the only way in which one can have a powerful president without having the system fly apart in the face of crisis.
Perhaps this weakness in our system is only likely to be exploited by a special kind of chief executive, the kind who takes office in an anomolous fashion and then governs radically without a mandate from the people; the kind who sees his legitimacy stemming from God rather than the ballot box; the kind who is convinced that he is leading a great crusade rather than running a democracy on behalf of it’s citizens.
Perhaps it took the unique combination of an attack on the country and a president of limited intellect and legitimacy to go that extra mile.
Bush bonds with leaders who see the world as he does, who in his view “get” the war on terrorism, who talk simply and straightforwardly and do not break any private commitments and understandings, officials said. Leaders who are willing to accept his point of view may be able to modify it somewhat, or gain something in return, but those looking for real negotiations or give-and-take are liable to come away disappointed, officials and diplomats say.
According to one former White House official, Bush appears to have a simple test for evaluating his fellow leaders: Good people or bad people? Do they have a vision for their countries or not?
“Whenever he talked about leaders, these were the categories he used,” said the official, speaking on the condition of anonymity. He said a CIA official who regularly attended the president’s daily intelligence briefings first pointed out to him Bush’s use of these terms, which was then confirmed by his own experience as a senior policymaker in the White House.
[…]
Bush puts a lot of stock in his gut-level assessments of his fellow leaders. The fact that Russian President Vladimir Putin treasures a cross given by his mother — and had it blessed in Israel — convinced Bush he could deal with the former KGB operative. As a result, Bush declared after their first meeting that Putin was “very straightforward and trustworthy” and he was able to “get a sense of his soul.”
Since then, Bush has continued to have close relations with Putin, who also will attend the summit, even as questions have arisen about whether Putin was smothering Russia’s fragile democracy. National security adviser Condoleezza Rice said yesterday that the relationship is “so broad and deep, the presidents could talk about anything on the map” when they meet at the summit.
Jayzuz. I cringe every time I think of this silly little man making judgments based on his “gut” reaction. What possible qualification does his “gut” have to do anything but digest peanut butter and jelly sandwiches? It’s not as if his instincts ever led him to any success at anything until they bought him a governorship in 1994.
Read the whole sickening article, which outlines his “relationship” with various world leaders. He comes off as if he sees the world as high school and he’s the BMOC dumb jock — throwing his weight around, disrespectful of anybody who doesn’t see things his way, stupid, crude and thuggish. (Another contrast with Reagan. Reagan didn’t show disgusting manners in foreign countries. For such a blue blood, Bush is a real pig.)
And for someone who apparently judges leaders on their “vision” for their countries, does anybody know what Bush’s is for this country? World domination? The Rapture? Hell in a handbasket?
Getting Old
Jesse says, ” I know (from personal experience) that conservatives tend to take the elitist attitude that if you disagree with them, it’s because you’re either young or immature.”
Jesse, you are obviously to young and immature to know what you are talking about.
Actually, you know exactly what you are talking about, but you will find that conservatives come up with something even more insulting as you get older. They simply say that you are ill informed and stupid. Everything becomes an epistomological knife fight because you can’t possible know what you claim to know because you aren’t reading, watching, mind-melding the right things. And if, perchance, you are a complete freak like me and actually read, watch and mind meld that right wing drivel, unless you completely eschew any other type of drivel you are being brainwashed and cannot be relied upon to know reality from never-never land.
This argument is the basis for the Right Wingnut mantras “youcontinuetoignoretheFACTS”, “youcan’tstandtolookattheFACTS”, “thesearetheFACTSprovemewrong.”
And, what’s worse is that when you get older they haul out the “if you’re not a liberal when you’re young you have no heart, but if you’re not a conservative when you’re old you have no head” chestnut. (To which I usually think, “no, if you’re a conservative, young or old, you get no head,” which I’m quite sure must be true judging from their hysterical reaction to Clinton’s little hallway forays.)
In any case, conservatives remain condescending and rude throughout your life. Growing older won’t cure it.
The Third Degree
It’s interesting that the crack lawyers who devised this new immunity from war crimes evoked the Nuremberg defense. Aside from the obvious fact that the Nuremberg defense failed spectacularly, it is also interesting because one of the war crimes the Nuremberg defendents, which included the SS, SA and the Gestapo as well as individuals, were tried and convicted of were using what they believed to be a legally prescribed interrogation method they called “the third degree.” I’m sure you’ve all heard of it:
The GESTAPO and SD conducted third degree interrogations. On 26 October 1939 an order to all GESTAPO offices from the RSHA signed Mueller, “by order,” in referring to execution of protective custody during the war, stated in part:
“In certain cases, the Reichsfuehrer SS and Chief of the German Police will order flogging in addition to detention in a concentration camp. Orders of this kind will, in the future, also be transmitted to the State Police District Office concerned. In this case, too, there is no objection to spreading the rumour of this increased punishment. ***” (1531-PS)
On 12 June 1942 the Chief of the Security Police and SD, through Mueller, published an order authorizing the use of third degree methods in interrogating where preliminary investigation indicates that the prisoner could give information on important facts such as subversive activities, but not to extort confessions of the prisoner’s own crimes. The order stated in part:
“*** 2. Third degree may, under this supposition, only be employed against Communists, Marxists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, saboteurs, terrorists, members of resistance movements, parachute agents, anti-social elements, Polish or Soviet-Russian loafers or tramps. In all other cases, my permission must first be obtained.
“*** 4. Third degree can, according to the circumstances, consist amongst other methods, of:very simple diet (bread and water)
hard bunk
dark cell
deprivation of sleep
exhaustive drilling also in flogging (for more than 20 strokes a doctor must be consulted).” (1531-PS)
George W. Bush has been making comparisons between the “War On Terrorism” and WWII. I didn’t realize that in this sequel we were the Germans.
Update: Just in case Rummy’s lawyers need a head start on a Nuremberg defense for third degree interrogation war crimes, here’s the one the German defense lawyers used. I think they may actually be familiar with it already:
The prosecution accuses the Gestapo of having employed the third degree method of interrogation. I had already spoken about this when I discussed the question whether the methods employed by the Gestapo were criminal. At this point I have the following to say with reference to this accusation:
The documents submitted by the prosecution made it perfectly clear that it was only permissible to employ third degree methods of interrogation in exceptional cases, only with the observance of certain protective guarantees and only by order of higher authorities. Furthermore, it was not permissible to use these methods in order to force a confession; they could only be employed in the case of a refusal to give information vital to the interests of the State, and finally, only in the event of certain factual evidence.
Entire sections of the Gestapo, such as the counter- intelligence police and frontier police, have never carried out third degree interrogations. In the occupied territories, where occupation personnel were daily threatened by attempts on their lives, more severe methods of interrogation were permitted, if it was thought that in this manner the lives of German soldiers and officials might be protected against such threatened attempts. Torture of any kind was never officially condoned. It can be gathered from the affidavits submitted, for instance, numbers 2, 3, 4, 61, and 63, and from the testimonies of witnesses Knochen, Hermann, Straub, Albath, and Best, that the officials of the Gestapo were continuously instructed during training courses and at regular intervals, to the effect that any ill-treatment during interrogations, in fact any ill-treatment of detainees in general, was prohibited.
See? The Germans didn’t believe in ill-treatment of “detainees,” either. But, sometimes they just had to use harsher measures when the security of the state was at stake. Surely, anyone can understand that.
Not that they didn’t have a few bad apples who took things too far from time to time. Doesn’t everybody?