Salon’s Chauncey DeVega interviewed the distinguished sociologist Robert Putnam about Joe Biden and the Democrats’ “FDR-LBJ” moment:
How are you feeling, given all of the tumultuous changes and challenges the American people have been facing with the Age of Trump and now into Biden’s presidency? We have gone from a nightmare scenario to some hope under Biden, but matters are still dire.
Given all the ups and downs of recent months — the pandemic, the economy and politics — prediction is hard, especially about the future. One can imagine many things going wrong — new virus strains, white nationalist terrorism and so on. That said, I’m feeling optimistic about where the country is headed, not merely in the short run, but even in the long run — and the long run is my main concern.
In my new book “The Upswing,” I examine parallels between the second decade of the 21st century, and a period 125 years ago which is very much like our present. I argue that we should and likely will be replicating the kinds of changes that were pursued in the Progressive Era during the first part of the 20th century. There is a phenomenon called the “I-We-I” curve, a movement from selfishness to community to selfishness. That curve is ripe for change in the United States.
Biden and the Democrats just passed a landmark COVID relief and survival bill. Given your concerns about social progress, how do you assess Biden’s presidency so far?
Biden is proving to be just what the doctor ordered for a shaken country, focused explicitly on “we,” not “I.” It’s not just his well-known empathy for people in pain, nor his equally well-known propensity to work across the aisle, but also his ability to adapt to changed political circumstances. While he tried to work with Republicans on the Hill — and polls show that the public believes he was sincere in that effort — he also proved able to act on his own when the GOP party leaders blew him off. His rising poll numbers show that he’s got most of the public, including many Republican voters, on his side.
From the Age of Trump and its many disasters to Biden’s presidency and its potential and opportunities, it feels as though America is in a world-historical moment. Who knows what happens next? How do you make sense of what could be a true turning point in history?
I have that same feeling. I also felt that way during another pivot point in American history, which was the middle of the 1960s. I went to college in the fall of 1959 and graduated from college in the spring of ’63. That was a period of time when we — the whole country, but especially college students and other young people — thought that we were going to change the world. We were going to end racism and social inequality, for example. Everybody in the world knew that big things were happening in all spheres of life. It’s an experience that is very difficult to explain and describe to someone who has not lived through such a moment.
What about backlash and right-wing reactionary politics?
When you are in a world-historical moment, some moment of great change, you do not know how it is all going to turn out at the end. That’s the nature of the thing. One is so close to the surface that they cannot get up to that 30,000-foot level and see what is happening in context, to see what is just around the corner. In the 1960s, we did not know what was going to happen next and it could have been anything. And in that case, what did in fact happen next was exactly the opposite of what we hoped. The reform movement of that period seemed to be winning, but then there was a dramatic reversal and basically bad things happened in every respect.
That was true in terms of racial justice. It was true in economic terms with Richard Nixon. Those questions of backlash are hanging over us now too.
If you could bring a Progressive-era activist through time to America today, what do you think they would see that is familiar? What would be different?
The first thing they would see would be completely familiar to them. That time traveler would see a world of great inequality. That is the world they knew in the Gilded Age. It was a world of intense political polarization like America’s present. Social relations among people, that is, their connections to their families, to the community and to religion and so on, were weakening.
That time traveler would see that is true here today. Their era was one of great narcissism or even self-centeredness. That is true in America today as well, especially given Trump’s presidency. He is the greatest narcissist of all.
And then, if our visitors from the Gilded Age were a bit more thoughtful, they would see that the strategies used during their era to fight back against inequality might work today as well.
We need a moral revival right now across issues such as racism and political polarization, and also more generally in terms of how our society treats human beings. We can learn from the Gilded Age how so many of our country’s problems require local solutions as well.
During the Gilded Age there was a great amount of experimentation with local solutions which would be piloted in different parts of the country and then shared nationally if they worked. These were called “laboratories of democracy.” Many of the solutions did not come from Washington. Then, as now, we also needed grassroots mobilization. And another echo of the past with the Progressive movement is how young people were the leaders. It will likely be young people who again lead the United States out of our current crises as well.
If you were to write a simple mission statement, what does it mean to be a progressive?
“We want to make progress.” Progressives also believe that we have the right ideas about how to solve problems. However, progressives are not exclusive in how we find solutions to problems. Other people and groups may have good solutions as well.
A mission statement for progressives right now would be: Think morally. That is the first part of the mission statement. Progressives must think about how to make changes that will improve the lot of the least well-off people in society. Progressives should also think scientifically in terms of solutions and real evidence. Do not rely on old myths or hearsay and rumors.
What do we know empirically about the impact of social capital and the “I-We-I” curve on American society today?
Children who grow up in social isolation do far worse than children who grow up in communities where the “we” is emphasized. In such communities the neighbors look out for one another. “We-ness” also positively impacts education and health and social mobility. People who grow up in areas where there is low social capital do not live as long. They also have higher mortality rates from many diseases such as diabetes, heart disease and cancer.
How come America’s death rate from COVID is so much higher than almost every other country in the world? How does such a thing happen?
The country was at the lowest ebb of our “we-ness,” that sense of collective care and concern and identity. America was at a low point in social capital, which meant that when the pandemic hit we were more vulnerable than other countries. Trump did not cause that accidental coincidence. It was a function of low social capital and COVID happening at the same time.
What advice do you have for young progressive activists today?
Change happens because people want to make change. We are agents. We are not merely the objects of history. We are the agents of history. That’s what change-makers during the Progressive Era understood. You can make a difference, and without you society is not going to change for the better.
Do you have any advice for the Biden administration and the Democratic Party on how to keep their momentum and work to create the progressive renewal you described?
Politically, their top priority has to be the midterm elections, and the American Rescue Plan is an excellent start. Whatever else may affect the Democrats’ chances in 2022 — from Dr. Seuss to crises at the southern border to unexpected Supreme Court decisions to shenanigans in Trump’s Republican Party to voter suppression — the electoral fundamentals next year will be, a) whether the pandemic is in the rearview mirror and b) whether the economy is booming again. All the experts agree that the COVID-19 rescue plan has more or less assured those two fundamentals. I’d much rather be playing Nancy Pelosi’s hand than Mitch McConnell’s hand over the next two years.
I’m focused much more on the next two decades than the next two years. But the prospects for the long run depend on what happens in the short and medium run. I’m more optimistic today than I have ever been in my life that within my lifetime. And I’m now 80! America may once again pivot toward a “we” society — more equal, less polarized, more altruistic, less socially fragmented and more attentive to historic, structural inequalities.
I’m trying to share these more optimistic takes whenever I see them. I have been so immersed in the ugliness of the Trump years and the years preceding with terrorism, war and ongoing anti-democratic actions going back a quarter century. I really need to remind myself that there’s another side. And there has been great progress along with all that, particularly the cultural progress that really forms the basis of everything we hope to do politically.