An interesting interview in a Dutch periodical with two high level intelligence officials:
The Dutch intelligence agencies AIVD and MIVD have reduced their information sharing with their American partners, according to the heads of the Dutch agencies. Peter Reesink (MIVD): “It’s true that we sometimes stop sharing information.” Erik Akerboom (AIVD): “Sometimes you have to consider each case individually: can I still share this information or not?”
- This is the first time that the AIVD and MIVD have acknowledged that developments in the United States, where human rights and the rule of law are under pressure, are impacting the intelligence relationship. This marks a striking rupture in the decades-long relationship between the Dutch agencies and American intelligence agencies such as the CIA and NSA.
- In Europe, a leading group of Northern European agencies has emerged that collaborate more intensively and exchange intelligence. This includes the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, Germany, Scandinavian agencies, France, and Poland. They also share raw data with each other.
Here’s that’ part of the interview:
While this is looming over Europe, the US is rapidly moving towards an autocracy. US President Donald Trump is deploying the military against his own people. Judges’ rulings are being ignored. The head of the NSA surveillance agency was fired for allegedly not being loyal enough.
Reesink: “To our great sorrow. We knew the man well.”
Is it still responsible to continue intensive intelligence sharing with the US at the same pace?
Reesink: “We visited the CIA and NSA a few months ago. Even with my own surprise: how are things going on the work floor? I was positively reassured. The ties are good and will remain good. That doesn’t change the fact that we regularly evaluate this collaboration.”
What is the conclusion, for example, when it comes to sharing intelligence about Russia, with the US uncertain about what it will do with it?Reesink: “That’s being weighed.”
Are you more reluctant to share certain information?
Reesink: “I can’t comment on what that relationship is like now compared to before. But it’s true that we’re making that assessment and sometimes even not sharing things anymore.”
That’s a striking shift. What has been the most significant change?
Akerboom: “We don’t judge what we see politically, but we look at our experiences with the services. And we’re very alert to the politicization of our intelligence and to human rights violations.”
What does it mean in practice if there are risks in those areas?
Akerboom: “Sometimes you have to consider case by case: can I still share this information or not?”
Is it possible to share bulk data, such as intercepted telecom and internet traffic, containing details of Dutch citizens, with the US?
Akerboom: “We can’t say what we will or won’t share. But we can say that we’re more critical.”
More critical than a year ago?
Akerboom: “Yes.”
Just to be clear: does it still happen that raw data, including information from Dutch people, is sent to American services?
Reesink, hesitantly: “Phew.”
Akerboom: “I don’t think we can rule it out.”
Reesink: “I find it difficult to rule it out completely.”
Does that also have to do with the technology of these kinds of systems?
Reesink: “Yes, it’s very technical. We try to extract Dutch data, but we can’t always rule out complete success.”Reesink: “For example. You can’t submit every country for verification in that system.”
Now that the United States is a less obvious ally, the Netherlands is looking more explicitly at cooperation with European services.
Wow, just wow.
Akerboom says that there has been “a huge escalation.” He speaks of a leading group of Northern European services, such as the British, Germans, Scandinavians, supplemented by the French and Polish, who exchange intelligence. “Raw data too.” A break with the past, when those relationships were more one-on-one. Due to the war in Ukraine and the Russian threat to Europe, multilateral relationships are starting to emerge. A similar development is visible in the military services, says Reesink.
You can’t blame them for not trusting us anymore. We are completely untrustworthy. They are turning elsewhere — and to each other. What choice do they have?
Trump thinks of Europe as a bunch of losers. But together they are as powerful as the U.S. and China. America is an idiotic nation for electing such a ridiculous person to the presidency and allowing him to destroy the most powerful alliance in history without any regard for what’s to replace it. His “policies,” such as they are, consist of paying protection and licking his boots. That’s it. And that is not a sustainable strategy in a nuclear world.
By the way, it’s particularly interesting that they are reluctant to share information about Russia with the U.S. Gosh, I wonder why…?