Author: Spocko

As of April 26, 2024 Donald Trump hasn’t stopped violating his Judge Merchan gag order. Until the punishments are strong enough to make him stop, we need to take steps to stop and punish his followers, who make threats on his behalf.

Marcy Wheeler was on the Nicole Sandler show last week talking about Donald Trump’s systematic threatening of his critics and how normalized political violence is for anybody who comes up against Donald Trump. I’ve written about, and asked a lot of questions about, how threats online and on social media have an impact and what can be done about them. It was great to hear from Marcy about the scope of the problem, how it involves the legal system, the media, social media and learn some names of major players who make threats on social media and get away with it.

“There is nobody who is on the wrong side of Donald Trump who is not stalked, who does not face mob violence, and it is systematic.

There’s a group of these people, Jesse Watters, we talked about. Jack Posobiec is always involved. Mike Cernovich is always involved. These are people in Roger Stone’s world. They have the ability to go find these people, they have the ability to stoke violence, they have the ability to terrify people. And it has been going on for years.

Marcy Wheeler, on the Nicole Sandler show 4-19-2024

She points out how for the right it’s okay if it’s just Lisa Page and Peter Strzok. If it’s Michael Cohen, it’s okay. If it’s Marie Yovanovitch, it’s okay. If it’s the whistleblower, it’s okay. She had thought that when Don Bacon’s wife was threatened and had to sleep with a gun under her pillow, the Republicans might have done something. But they haven’t. They are quiet or they do what Republican Mike Gallagher just did, quit.

Marcy said that right now it’s the moment where we have to figure out how to get Trump through the trial.

My question is “What can be done to deter his followers from making more threats to jurors?” I don’t expect to stop them entirely. But there ARE ways. Law enforcement and the courts in NYC knew this was coming. They should be prepared to protect the jurors, AND arrest the people who are threatening them.

I’m betting there have already been threats, but people haven’t been arrested yet. One thing that we have learned is that law enforcement doesn’t want to talk about the scale and scope of the threats. Why? They give multiple reasons, but some are excuses for their failures:
1) The need to confirm who made the threats
2) Confirm that the threats were violations of specific laws, and for True Threats, the intention of the people making the threat.
3) They need evidence for indictments for the laws that were broken

We have seen them go after the most blatant and obvious threats first, hoping that will act as a deterrent for others. They don’t charge people making vague mob type threats, because they are hard to pin down. But based on the history of the scale and scope of the PREVIOUS threats to judges, prosecutors, witnesses and their families, there will be LOTS to solid, clearly illegal threats to choose from.

Arrests aren’t deterrents if nobody knows they happened

If I was in charge of promoting a “Protect the Jurors” campaign, starting this week I’d be pushing stories about the people who have been arrested for threatening the jurors. If they don’t have current cases, I’d look at historical cases where the person was arrested and convicted. I would include threats to people in person, on the phone, via email and on social media.

I talked to Glenn Kirschner about the steps the legal system takes for protecting jurors (and witnesses). He said when jurors are contacted with threats or bribes, they are supposed to tell the court immediately. Then three law enforcement agencies are involved: local, state & Feds. Because of this there needs to be a coordinated response. The Feds do the interstate threats, like social media. The locals do the in-person threats. Here is what I want to know now, but we probably won’t be told by law enforcement:

Are the Feds already monitoring the juror’s social media accounts?
If not, when do they start? After they get their first threat?
The COURTS already know the names of all the jurors and their social media accounts. Are they being monitored by law enforcement looking for threats? If they spot threats, what do they do? Do they contact the social media companies with subpoenas to get the information of who is making the threat?
BTW, social media companies must comply with law enforcement subpoenas to provide information, it’s part of all of their TOS, that includes Truth Social and X.

Who is monitoring & counting the juror’s phone calls and emails?
We know from the threats to Judge Engoron’s clerk that she was getting constant calls. The court Judiciary protection service counted 275 pages of transcribed voicemail threats. But the only reason we know how huge it was is because the New York State Court public safety people took that information to the media because LAW ENFORCEMENT WASN’T DOING ENOUGH TO PROTECT Engoron’s clerk and staff.

People need to know that it is not the standard practice of law enforcement agencies to tell the media about the scale and scope of threats to people, nor the status of investigations.

Here’s the thing I’ve found out after years of investigating: law enforcement agencies don’t want to charge people for their online threats, but they CAN. When they do charge people for the threats, the arrests need to be publicized. But right now they aren’t. They aren’t even releasing the mugshots of the people arrested.

Did you know that Tyler Vogel, 26, from Lancaster New York was arrested for threatening AG Letitia James and State Supreme Court Justice Arthur Engoron? Did you see his mug shot in any media stories? I haven’t, and I looked. I did find ONE photo in a story about the threat. But it was on TikTok! I’m not using it here because I couldn’t confirm it was from an official source. I don’t know the reason for not providing the mugshot to the media, but I’m sure they have an answer. Maybe I’ll call and find out.

If law enforcement doesn’t want to put up the photos of people arrested for making threats, The media can put up the mugshots of the people who have been convicted for making threats on social media. Like Fredrick Francis Goltz, convicted for threatening Arizona election officials. Like Alan McCarty Jr., convicted for threatening to kill a judge.

Remember Taylor Taranto? He’s a Jan6er who went to Obama’s home with a van full of explosives after Trump posted the address on Truth Social.

Marcy talked about how hard it is to arrest people, even someone like Taylor Taranto a Jan6er defendant who was arrested near Obama’s home with a van full of explosives after Donald Trump posted Barack Obama’s Kalorama address on Truth Social.

“[Taranto] started engaging in whole martyrdom complex outside the DC jail and it got so bad he was such an disturbed person that even those nut jobs outside the DC jail said, “Please don’t come back.” And one day Donald Trump posted Barack Obama’s Kalorama address on Truth Social and that dude started stalking Barack Obama in Kalorama. And he was arrested for that stalking. He was arrested because he had a van with explosives in it. And he was he was hunting down a Secret Service protected former President, and it feels like you should be able to hold Trump accountable for that.”

Marcy Wheeler @Emptywheel on the Nicole Sandler show

“We really have to find a way to shame people for this kind of witness intimidation, because it’s going on everywhere. And it is one of the most toxic things in our politics right now. And we just haven’t had that conversation as a society.”

We are not going to “have a conversation as a society” unless we push for it. To do that

We need to demand for multiple people to be investigated, arrested and tried for their threats to jurors. If convicted and sent to prison we need to publicize their crimes big enough that they make it to Fox News audience, to act as a deterrent.

The DOJ and the New York Courts MUST make a big deal about the threats to jurors. There needs to be PR about it beyond putting out a press release. But it can’t just be about Trump, because as Marcy said, “Trump is very, very, very, very skilled at like toeing the line. He’s like a little child, a toddler who knows exactly how much he can get away with, and how to be most effective when he is doing that. And so in this case, in the  Taylor Taranto case, all he did was post, somewhat public information. He didn’t say go, “Go stalk Barack Obama.” It is just the fact, and he knows this, that his followers are going to respond to that. And then people like Jack Posobiec, they’re going to ratchet it up, they’re going to say, “We need to defend our guy, we need to hunt out the dissident.”

What people need to know is that Taranto used his own Truth Social account to re-post the address. On Telegram, Taranto then stated, ‘We got these losers surrounded! See you in hell, Podesta’s and Obama’s ‘”
Taranto also told followers on his YouTube live stream that he was looking to get a “good angle on a shot,” prosecutors said.

Truth Social, GAB and Patriot(dot)Win have ALL provided detailed info in the past to law enforcement when a subpoena is provided. People on Social Media are NOT “anonymous” to the companies that post their information. Law enforcement can get their identities, can determine if they have likely broken laws, get a warrant and arrest them. The people will have a chance to challenge the arrest in the court system, this is good, some might be found to have NOT violated the law. BUT if there are NO PUBLIC arrests, then there will be NO deterrents for threats.

Marcy ended this week’s Nicole Sandler show with this New York Times story about a stalker of Lisa Page.
Ex-F.B.I. Lawyer Who Criticized Trump Says Bureau Failed to Warn Her About Stalker (Gift Link)
John C. Perez was barred from  Camp Lejeune in North Carolina because of his obsession with Ms. Page, mass shootings and a fixation on child sex abuse, (Qanon stuff) The Marines told the the FBI about him, yet they didn’t take action or notify Ms. Page about him. Also, I looked for a mugshot of John C. Perez, I couldn’t find one.

The lesson of Donald Trump is everyone gets threats, everyone gets death threats, everyone gets stalked, and that never goes away. Whether or not he regains the presidency he is about using political violence, using threats of violence against everyone. And eventually you will be part of that, everyone.”

Marcy Wheeler, on the Nicole Sandler show.

Cross posted to Spocko’s Brain

Jena Griswold, the Colorado Secretary of State was on Chris Hayes talking about the threats she got and revealed that there was a 600% increase in threats to her and staff. 600% WTF?

That day, she received an email declaring: “We are coming for you bitch.” Another person emailed, “If you have kids, I hope they get murdered by illegal aliens,” adding, “Seriously, just die.”

In a voicemail, someone said, “I can’t wait to find you and follow you to your house and expose your address.” Another person left a voicemail saying, “I’d love for you to die.” Some time this month, a person told Griswold on social media, “Take my advice and wear Kevlar … a lot of Kevlar!!!”

‘Just Die’: Colorado Elections Chief Who Took on Trump Sees 600% Spike in Threats, By Andrew Perez, Adam Rawnsley, Ryan Bort, Asawin Suebsaeng March 28, 2024 

On these cable news segments we often hear some specific threats, but unless someone counts all the threats, and then tells the media about them, we never know just how huge the problem is. And if we don’t know how huge the problem is, we also don’t know how terrible the response to the problem is.

At the end of the segment Griswold talked about how the DOJ Election Threat Response Task Force has failed. It’s been going since 2021 and has only 20 convictions.

Have you heard about any of those 20 convictions? Did you see any mugshots of the perps who are now serving 3 1/2 years in prison for threatening election officials? No. Because the DOJ didn’t use any photos of the convicted felons in their press release or press conference!

This is a huge failure by the DOJ. They MUST promote their successes to send a message to the general public that if you threaten election officials, their staff and poll workers you will be found, arrested, tried and punished. And I’m not the only one who thinks this. This is from AZ’s new secretary of state,

Even when federal prosecutors secure a victory after charging people making these violent threats, Arizona’s secretary of state argues that barely anyone hears about it — and that’s a major problem.

“In almost every other area criminality is deterred through public campaigns,” he adds. The Justice Department’s election task force issues typically press releases after convictions, but Fontes says press releases aren’t enough to deter people or adequate given the extent of the problem.

Top Arizona Dem: Biden’s DOJ Is Failing to Protect Election Workers From ‘Domestic Terrorism’

As my friend Bill said, that’s like if the feds did a massive drug and weapons bust but didn’t have a photo of the guy they busted or a photo of the 600 pounds of cocaine stacked up next to 275 rocket propelled grenades.

I couldn’t find a photo anywhere online of Joshua Russell of Bucyrus, Ohio who got 2.5 years in prison for death threats made in 2022 to Arizona’s top election official. The only mug shot I found was of Frederick Goltz of Lubbock Texas. He threaten Arizona elected officials and their kids on RW social media. I read all court documents for the entire Goltz case and the media coverage. His lawyers used all the usual explanations, ‘He was joking. He was in another state, he didn’t intend to take action, his comment was taken out of context, he is a good father who cares for his kids.” The prosecution countered all of those and proved he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Goltz was sentenced to 3 1/2 years in prison.

This would have been an excellent case for the DOJ to promote nationally as a deterrent, because he threatened to kill kids too. But they didn’t. It was one of the victims who posted on social media that I found the mugshot. The VICTIMS should NOT have to promote the successful prosecution.

In the case of threats to Jena Griswold, the Colorado Secretary of State’s office went to the journalists at Rolling Stone and told them what was happening. THIS IS NOT what law enforcement tells people to do. But when law enforcement isn’t doing their job, they have to. Law enforcement knew of all the threats to Judge Engoron’s clerk during Trump’s trial, but they don’t talk about “ongoing investigations” so the New York state court system’s Department of Public Safety kept count of the threats and told the media.

Here’s Lisa Rubin telling Chris Hayes about the 275 Pages of transcribed voicemail threats. When he saw that the scale and scope of the threats it finally made an impact on Hayes.

The Secretary Of State office had to go the press because law enforcement isn’t doing their job. But even media pressure isn’t enough. There needs to be an look into WHY law enforcement is failing and fix the problem.

Thanks to great reporting from Linda So and Jason Szep at Reuters, we’ve learned that law enforcement often won’t investigate and they dismiss threats as not rising to the level of criminal threat prosecution. Or they declare them “protected political speech”  But based on the experts who reviewed the threats, that’s a bullshit excuse. This is a must read piece on the failure of law enforcement to manage threats to U.S. election workers. It’s from 2021 and is damning.
U.S. election workers get little help from law enforcement as terror threats mount Reuters Campaign of Fear Sept. 8, 2021,

What’s really behind law enforcement not wanting to do this?
1) It’s not a priority
2) They don’t have a budget
3) They don’t see it as a big deal, it’s “online” or on social media, so it’s not local or “real world.”
4) It’s a lot of work for a low conviction rate, especially if they have to prove intent.
5) The people getting threatened aren’t important (POC, low-level election workers, women like Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss)
6) The people who are doing the threatening are not seen as domestic terrorists.
7) Lots of cops are MAGA Trumpers

I’ve dug into the reasons and excuses for law enforcement’s failure to act.
1) Show the problem is huge and real.
The Secretary of States offices should talk to more people in the media about scale and scope.
They should describe the actions that need to be taken, and by whom.
There should be talk about who is blocking those actions and what pressures they are using.
(Is this about Trump lovers in law enforcement? Budget? Fear of speaking out?)
4) Determine what pressures can apply to get action. What if the stories about 1,000s of actionable threats isn’t enough?
Do we need to expose the INTENTIONAL internal failures and how they will lead to deaths?

And finally, since I LOVE to talk about successes, not just failures, when a law gets passed or a person is convicted for threats or a victim wins a civil law suit and is compensated for their pain and suffering, promote those stories! Make it a big deal!

(BTW, I’ve been doing this by educating groups on the power of civil legal actions and teaching them how to do follow up stories with the media. What I don’t know how to do, and needs to be done, is a social media plan that addresses the coordinated disinformation and gaslighting and fights back.)

One thing I learned from Glenn Kirschner is that the DOJ wants people to believe they are above pressure, but he said when they get new information, either from the original reporting or from reports from sources like the Secretary of State’s offices, the DOJ is forced to look at it and respond.

Based on this information everyone being threatened needs to USE that information. Get your story out there. Demand of law enforcement, “Where are the arrests?” If law enforcement does HAVE a success, SHOW IT!

Get the media to stop with their OWN excuses. I still see a reflexive move of the media to give the benefit of the doubt to people making threats. I get it, they don’t want to be seen as censors. They want to be able to criticize elected officials, Chris Hayes was still pushing the “You should expect some incoming” as a DA, as a normal experience, until he heard of the 275 transcribed pages of voicemail threats. That finally got through to him. But the media, and the public, need to hear it OVER AND OVER again. As Barb McQuade points out in her book, the right is exploiting our old views of in-person free speech in an actual public square, via an era of anonymous bots pushing lies and threats on social media.

The DOJ Election Threats Task Force should be doing big national stories about the people who are in jail for threats. SO big that FOX news can’t avoid covering them. And when RW social media and FOX try to turn the perpetrators into “misunderstood martyrs” whose “free speech is being censored!”
There needs to be a social media rapid response team that flips that lie around. “This guy IS NOT A “FREE SPEECH” HERO.” THIS GUY THREATENED TO KILL KIDS, HE IS BEING PUNISHED AS THE LAW PROVIDES.”

The social media owners should know this is against their Terms Of Service AND the LAW! Any gaslighting about it being free speech needs to be called out as the BS it is.

I’d repeat what John Keller, head of the Justice Department’s Election Threats Task Force, had to say in this press conference,

“Death threats are not debate.
Death threats do not contribute to the marketplace of ideas.
Death threats are not a protected constitutional right.”

John Keller, head of the Justice Department’s Election Threats Task Force

When there are no big stories about convictions for threats, no photos of the people who are going to prison for years following a trial by a jury of their peers, there will be no deterrence. Yes, justice was done, but the public doesn’t know about. Humans need to SEE justice being done.

I asked people for an example of seeing justice getting done. They recommended the ending scene of The Untouchables. I thought that was appropriate, especially since Trump has taken to comparing himself to Al Capone lately.

Two of Trump’s worst nightmares are happening right now, he’s broke and people are laughing at him. It’s glorious!
I told people I enjoyed 24 hours of knowing Donald’s squirming. In this clip you can see how Eric Trump is personally experiencing his Dad’s humiliation at the hands of bankers and bond companies.
Eric Trump Sunday interview on Fox News, host Maria Bartiromo 

“When I came to them saying, ‘Hey, can I get a 1/2 billion dollar bond?’ Maria they were laughing!”

-Eric Trump to Maria Bartiromo on Fox 3-24-2024

It’s interesting that Eric was doing the calling, and they laughed in his face. Why not Daddy? Because they know Donald always get revenge against people who laugh at him and don’t do what he wants.

On Monday we learned Trump got the bond amount reduced to $175 million and a Double Secret Special Extension that kicks the can down the road 10 days. Maybe he’ll get the money from “outside the US” (I noted that Eric used that phrase intentionally twice, he’s setting it up for a “We had to go outside the US because no one would do it in the US!” We’ll probably learn is TOTALLY legal-for people who aren’t running for President. If it is a FEC violation, good luck with enforcement!

Intelligence communities know that money troubles make people vulnerable to blackmail. The experts will look at the laws for a bond, and it might be technically legal if it comes from Jared via the Saudis to Trump. Or it will come from Jeffrey Yass, the billionaire GOP megadonor who has a $33 billion stake in TikTok, and supported the Truth Social IPO.

After he gets the bond Trump will lash out at the people who laughed at him and didn’t give him money. But first he attacked AG Letitia James. There were be new death threats, harassment and attacks on her via social media. Judge Engoron and his clerk will likely get new threats, especially since nothing happened to Trump, OR THE PEOPLE WHO MADE THE THREATS, last time.

When Trump says “They are laughing at our country” He means they are laughing at him. Laughing at him is almost as dangerous as criticizing him. Remember how he made Governors beg for supplies during the pandemic? Trump threatens people’s lives and withholds lifesaving food and supplies–unless they grovel before him.

I was thinking about the next scene after Carrie gets laughed at — she kills everyone.
Then she goes home and tells her mom they all laughed at her and asked for her mother to hold her. Instead, the mother said, ‘I should have killed you when you were born. But I was weak and back sliding.”

I made a mashup of Eric Trump and Carrie. What I remembered was the “They are all going to laugh at you!” part but it was the attack from Carrie on the people that stood out this time. And I added the violence from January 6th and Trump promises a “Bloodbath.”

Trump is a damaged man. I want to ENJOY watching Trump squirm. I also know that Trump is like a cornered animal and he will extract vengeance on people who aren’t supporting him and who laugh at him. This time around he is promising a blood bath. That’s not funny.

Did you know that Judge Scott McAfee delayed his written order on Willis and Wade for a week because he had been receiving threats? He needed time for proper security to be in place for him and his family. The ONLY source that I found who mentioned this was Kyle Griffin at MSNBC.

This really PISSES ME OFF. I try to be all logical about the reasons the threats keep working and point to solutions, but I’m really sick and tired of the BS excuses by law enforcement when it comes to dealing with threats from the MAGA base to the judges, prosecutors, witnesses, jurors AND THEIR FAMILIES, in Donald Trump’s legal cases.

I’m a fast talker but slow writer so I dictated my thoughts to Otter.AI (a service I use to transcribe videos). It has a feature to summarize what you said and provide action items. It worked surprisingly well!

Spocko is frustrated with the lack of action taken by law enforcement to address threats made against judges and their families. He argues that local law enforcement should have anticipated and prepared for these threats, but their failure to do so is driving him ‘nuts.’
Spocko highlights specific instances where media attention and public pressure led to action being taken, but notes that more often than not, there is a lack of response or prosecution.
He questions why law enforcement is failing to take these threats seriously and why they are not doing more to address them.

It even came up with Action Items for the Georgia law enforcement based on what I said:

• Anticipate and prepare for threats ahead of time to allow for quick response
  (Georgia law enforcement FAILED!)
• Intercept, trace, find, arrest, and prosecute people making threats
  (Georgia law enforcement FAILED!)
  
  I had action items for Georgia government:
• Investigate reasons for failure to anticipate and respond to threats
• Analyze past examples of effective law enforcement response to threats
  
  I had action items for the people in comms in Georgia government:
• Serious question: Do you want threats to stop? Because when there are no arrests for threats, the message being sent to the people making them is that they are fine.

The Failure To Protect The People from MAGA Domestic Terrorists

Every week i talk with Glenn Kirschner about what can be done about threats. He got REALLY PISSED that Trump’s BLOODBATH comments aren’t going to land him in pretrial detention. He asks,

“Will the criminal justice system writ large receive this latest deadly threat with a yawn? Or will they apply the law as it is intended to be applied? ”

Glenn Kirschner on Trump’s promise of a “bloodbath” if he loses the election?

I’m always looking for solutions, but I’m also looking at people to blame when they have refused to act over and over again when it comes to threats. Did you know Georgia law enforcement never arrested ANYONE for the threats to Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss?!

Check out this great Reuters report

Trump campaign demonized two Georgia election workers – and death threats followed

Cobb County Police said no one was arrested in response to the reported threats and declined further comment. …

On Jan. 25, Barron emailed Fulton County police chief Wade Yates and other officials. The family needed protection, he said. “Can we do anything to help her and her family with security?” he asked, referring to Moss, in the email, reviewed by Reuters. Yates suggested hiring an armed guard at a cost of $22.50 per hour, according to an email. “We can work out funding details next week,” he said.

Asked why Freeman and Moss didn’t receive a security detail, Fulton County Police said in a statement that it can’t approve budgeting in such a case and referred questions to the county government.

The county government said it did not provide security for the women because the messages they received did not rise to the level of criminal threats that could be prosecuted. The decision was not financial in nature, it added.

[The Reuters reporters talked to multiple experts who said the threats DID rise to the level of criminal threats.]

 Reuter’s Special Report: Campaign of Fear by Jason Szep and Linda So Dec. 1, 2021

You would THINK that considering it was a Judge who is white and a Republican, Georgia law enforcement would have prepared for threats ahead of time to allow for a quick response. Georgia cops should have announced arrests IMMEDIATELY after the threats, to show they were prepared.

It’s almost as if law enforcement WANTS anyone involved in Trump cases to be AFRAID of political violence. As I said, I’ve investigated failure and successes when it comes to threats online. I could point to good communications about threats (like from New York’s Judicial Threats Assessment Unit that informed the media about the scale and scope of the threats to Judge Engoron and his clerk.)

That report got through to people in the media like Chris Hayes, who I’ve seen conflating criticism of elected officials with threats over and over again. Watch this clip of Lisa Rubin talking about the 275 pages of transcribed threats from voice mail, that finally got to him.

I know that the media have a big role to play in making sure the people understand what is happening and who is benefiting from a failure to act on threats. So I wrote to Kyle Griffin at MSNBC.

Kyle:
Could you please dig into threats made to Judge McAfee? Your March 15 tweet was the ONLY place I saw anyone saying McAfee delayed the Willis/Wade order because of the threats to his family. 

This sounds like a massive failure of Georgia Law enforcement.

Could you do a Weekend segment on this failure of law enforcement? I know there ARE laws that can deal with these threats, but they aren’t a priority. I don’t want to hear the lame excuses. Please get someone to expose the reasons behind the failures, and what must be done to fix it.

LLAP, Spocko
@spocko@mastodon.online

Cross posted to Spocko’s Brain

I just read Barb McQuade’s new book. Attack from Within. How Disinformation is Sabotaging America. I had planned to go see her in person at the Commonwealth Club and ask her some questions, but it was sold out, plus I knew what would happen, the first person at the mic would say, “I don’t have a question so much as a 3 part comment ” and talk for 5 minutes.” (I’m guilty of that myself, I even used that phrasing as a joke line with my friend Cory Doctorow and Annalee Newitz at his book reading for Red Team Blues. )

My goal when asking book authors questions is to help them amplify the parts I see as important in a memorable way. Especially for an audience that needs to hear it, but will likely never read the book.

So when I heard Barb was going to be on the Nicole Sandler show I wrote Nicole and said, “I think the most important point Barb makes in the book is that with social media our old metaphors of speech & debate are out of date and they are being used against us. Please get Barb to repeat this, with examples! Go right to Chapter 5, Why America is Particularly Vulnerable to Disinformation”

Well, as it turned out there was a scheduling issue with Barb on Tuesday, so I called in and got to repeat some of her important insights and talk about what Barb identified as failures in law enforcement, legislation and business and her proposed solutions.

I’m a slow writer but fast talker, here’s a link to me calling into the show talking about all this, in my piece below I just cover a couple of key points.

This quote from Chapter 5 is the set up I still hear from people on the left. I call it the 1st Amendment, “Free Speech” platitude line.

First, our constitutional commitment to free speech is enshrined in the First Amendment and regarded by the left and the right with a near religious reverence. As a result, many of us embrace the view that we would defend the right of our neighbors to express even the most offensive ideas, because their right to express them is essential to democracy. And so with few exceptions people are free to say anything, even if their statements are factually incorrect or, worse, intentionally deceptive.

Attack from Within: How Disinformation Is Sabotaging America, by Barb McQuade. Chapter 5

It’s the old, “I don’t like what they have to say, but I’ll fight to the death their right to say it!” line.
Very noble! But does that mean you’ll defend to the death the “right” of 5,000 bots out of Russia to amplify intentional lies about our election? What if your “neighbor” is in Lubbock Texas and calls for the killing of election officials AND THEIR KIDS, who live in Arizona? (True story. Texas man sentenced to 3½ years for threatening Arizona election workers, officials)

In the book Barb talks about how disinformation can lead to political violence. She also gets into WHY actions aren’t taken by law enforcement in the section, titled, “Our Reluctance To Investigate”
This was something that I knew about, from the great work by Reuters’ reporters Linda So and Jason Szep.
U.S. election workers get little help from law enforcement as terror threats mount

McQuade points out how the history of the FBI abuses, as revealed by the Church Committee, led to the Domestic Investigation Operations Guide (DIOG) and how that led to FBI’s failure to investigate Jan 6th insurrectionists, EVEN THOUGHT THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN monitoring them on social media.

“The FBI’s shameful history of infringing on civil liberties, with its counterintelligence operation of the 1960s and ’70s that targeted civil rights leaders in Vietnam War protesters, makes the agency reluctant to investigate crimes that touch on Free Speech or assembly. “

Attack from Within: How Disinformation Is Sabotaging America, by Barb McQuade. Chapter 5

If I was interviewing her I’d ask her to explain why serious criminal threats to judges, prosecutors, witnesses and jurors, as well as public health and election officials, aren’t prosecuted. I’ve read the excuses used by state & local law enforcement, as well as prosecutors. I’ve been writing about this for a long time. I wouldn’t just accept the standard answer I hear from the FBI or former prosecutors.

In the book she gives the excuse used by the FBI to NOT identify the January 6th threat online, despite social media posts openly indicating it was coming. Then she quotes the head of the FBI INCORRECTLY saying to the January 6th Committee that the FBI was “not allowed… to just sit and monitor social media and look at one person’s posts to see if maybe something would happen just in case That we’re not allowed to do.”
Barb CORRECTLY says BUT THEY ARE! And she links to AG guidelines on assessments for protective purposes, for special events.

(BTW, the other group that failed here was the Secret Service. THEY were in charge of evaluating the groups at the January 6th event and they did NOT list The Proud Boys as a threat, despite a history of violence. )

As an activist and blogger I’ve learned over the years to follow up on the author’s suggested solutions, so I’d ask Barb:
1) Who is fighting against any positive change?
2) Who is spending big bucks and lobbying against change?
3) Do the people who WANT change have any political power? Leverage?
4) Who is fighting to BLOCK change from WITHIN?
5) What can the public do?

Barb’s book answered one of my questions: Who is fighting positive change from WITHIN? The FBI.
And she explains some reasons why.
1) They are clinging to their old metaphors of who are the domestic terrorists. They don’t want to investigate cases of threats from the right wing, so they lump them all into “1st Amendment issues” and “protected political speech.”

2) They are under RW political pressure. When school boards were getting death threats, and school boards asked the FBI to investigate, the right wing LIED and said “The FBI is going after us for a difference of opinion!” Jim Jordan spread that disinformation by holding a bogus government weaponization committee. He subpoenaed FBI Director Christopher Wray about the FBI’s “misuse of federal criminal and counterterrorism resources” to target parents at school board meetings.

3) They are overwhelmed by the scale and scope of the disinformation and threats. If it’s not a priority and they don’t have the budget, they ignore the cases.

I get tired of “documenting the atrocities” as Atrios likes to say, so if I was interviewing Barb I’d get her to give some examples of her proposed solutions working.

BTW, when I coach book authors to prepare them for the media, I have them tell a story that illustrates a problem and a solution. Since Barb wasn’t on my call with Nicole I gave an example I knew of her solutions working.

Since I’m an election worker, I looked into what was being done about threats to election workers. Did you know that in 2021 the Justice Department set up an Election Threats Task Force? They help local and state election officials investigate and prosecute people who made threats to election officials on social media. Here’s a list of successful prosecution from August 2023. Just this week the DOJ announced a Massachusetts man was sentenced to three years and six months in prison for sending a communication containing a bomb threat to an election official in the Arizona Secretary of State’s Office. 

The task force having the resources and the priority of prosecuting the case is great, and it helps with a change in attitude from law enforcement about what they CAN and SHOULD be doing. But of course the huge orange elephant in the room is the lack of action taken about the threats and harassments of elected officials made by Donald Trump.

I know that Barb has been asked many times, “Why can’t we do anything about the biggest spreader of disinformation and threats, Donald Trump?” It’s the same question I ask weekly to Glenn Kirschner. So instead I’d ask her about Chapter 9, how do we “Mitigate The Harms to Public Safety and National Security.”

She tells the story of the prosecution of the men who plotted to kidnap Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer. On the Sister’s In Law podcast she talked about working in national security at the US attorney’s office in Detroit. There she learned that the FBI refers to the time before an attack as, “left of boom.” The phrase connotes a visual image of a timeline, on which “boom” is the attack itself’ any point left of boom is a time before the attack.

What surprised me about that story was how there is no domestic terrorism statute that would allow “the FBI to act left of boom by using the same tactics they use in international terrorism cases.” This sounds like a good idea, help the FBI to investigate threats. But when I read that my mind jumped to “The FBI will use this power to go after LEFT wing groups! They will keep ignoring RIGHT wing groups!”

And this is where people on the left are blocking change, and the reasons are related to old metaphors and current history. Oregon passed a law that targeted the far right, but civil rights groups pointed out it is open to misuse against climate and racial justice activists. As, Natasha Lennard wrote in the Intercept.

THERE ARE ALREADY ample laws on the books and tools available to police should they wish to take on extremist violence overwhelmingly perpetrated by the far right. But it is not for lack of capacity or resources that police in the state have regularly ignored these groups; there is a well-established pattern of police support for, and indeed membership of, civilian far-right organizations, including the Oath Keepers militia.

Oregon Domestic Terrorism Law Targets the Far Right. Here’s How It’ll Backfire., Natasha Lennard. April 24, 2023 The Intercept

So it’s more than just having laws on the books, it’s about how we define terms, categorize people and groups and then who is actually prioritized for investigation and prosecution.

Think about how the right wing media and politicians are calling convicted insurrectionists hostages. The FBI has prosecuted people in right wing groups that clearly are domestic terrorists. There are hundreds of convicted insurrectionists with ties to known domestic terrorism groups. The FBI needs to keep an eye on these people with a history of threats and actual violence. It’s a threat to public safety if they don’t.

But if everyone is REPOSTING that phrase hostage, under the guise of reporting on Donald Trump, we are spreading that disinformation about who those people are and what those groups they belong to are doing.

So, since I always like to end on what we in the public do. I made a graphic to illustrate the point I learned from Marcy Wheeler about spreading disinformation, “Don’t be a Data Mule for Disinformation!“

Elie Mystal’s latest piece in The Nation is a must read. I agree with his title and his premise:
The Supreme Court Must Me Stopped.

My question is “So how do we stop them?” There IS a way, and we need to act. Before you go into the, “Yeah, but…” read the whole piece, he lays out several steps to take, starting with changing our attitudes. We have to stop treating them as they want to be treated, as 9 law shamans. We need to treat them as “politicians in robes.”

This court has proven with its actions—through one politically motivated decision after another—that it is unfit to wield the power that it does.”

The Supreme Court Must Be Stopped, Elie Mystal in the Nation. March 1, 2024

I’m an activist so I know that there are multiple steps to make something happen. Elie starts out with changing how we in the public perceive the court.

Mystal, “The first step toward stopping the Supreme Court’s political actions is to treat the justices as political actors and subject them to all of the scrutiny, pressure, and protest normal political actors face every day. ” I like the way my friend Lisa Graves referred to them, “Politicians in robes.”

Elie points out that how we treat politicians in American is very different than how we treat Supreme Court Justices. We questions them, we have processes for getting rid of them when they do a bad job. We need to do the same with Supreme Court Justices. Part of our perception comes from how the media treats them. That needs to change. When our perception of the court changes, so should our response to them.

I LOVE the work that has been done by ProPublica on the corruption in the court, but the history of Thomas’ corruption has been known for a LONG time. What I’ve seen happen is that when corruption in the court is reveale, all the excuses pop up. “Sorry, nothing can be done!” I’ll ask a question like “Why can’t someone force Thomas to recuse?” and I’ll get a history lesson and answers about the separation of powers, so then I ask, “What do we have to do to change that, so that there are mandatory ethical rules and consequences for violating them?”

Lisa Graves is going to be on the Nicole Sandler show again on, Feb 5, 2024 if you want to listen live & ask a question it’s at 5ET/2PT. I’d like her to walk through the reasons given for no action. What steps need to be taken? Who needs to take them? Who does the public put pressure on? What do we demand? What are the excuses that will be used? What are our responses to the excuses?

Clarence Thomas should recuse and resign. He should impeached for his corruption. He should hang up his robe and cry.

The song is from The Parody Project & is called, “Hang Up Your Robe Judge Thomas,” It’s based on the song Tom Dooley. This is a short, speeded up version.

Listen to the whole song & show on the Nicole Sandler Show last week Lisa Graves talked about corruption in the Supreme Court. (Graves was Chief Counsel for Nominations for the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee for Sen Leahy) She recently wrote about how Thomas should have recused in the Colorado case. She then explained that when Clarence Thomas did NOT recuse on the Bush V. Gore case, Ginni Thomas got more than a million dollars from the Heritage Foundation after Clarence voted in that 5-4 decision. Ginni was promoted at the Heritage Foundation and began advising the Bush White House on appointments.

Read Grave’s whole article here: Clarence Thomas Has No Shame. But You Knew That.
Not recusing in a case such as this is unprecedented. It’s wrong. And it’s an appalling testament to how corrupted, how political, and how morally bankrupt the Roberts Court really is.

I’m all for FORCING Thomas off the bench. It might take impeachment, an indictment of Ginni Thomas, new stories about Clarence Thomas’s corruption, or Congress passing ethics laws for the Supreme Court. We really can’t let things continue as they have been. I like how Elie put it. “We must demand that our political leaders share with us their plans for stopping the court, in just the same way we demand to hear their plans to fix infrastructure or lower taxes.” YES! And, if they give mealy mouth answers, start the drum beat for real solutions.

Finally, Elie said, “all of us need to recognize how dangerous the court is. We are ruled by this court because we are too disunified and distracted to resist it. That has to end, because these nine people will not stop devouring democracy until there is none left to eat.”

The White Nationalist group Patriot Front was confused by the turnstiles at NYC’s World Trade Center PATH station. It reminded me of this classic turnstile scene with Slim Pickens in Blazing Saddles.

But seriously folks, who is the Patriot Front and how can they be defeated once they figure out how to use turnstiles? In June I talked to Matt Binder on the Doomed podcast about Patriot Front, the Neo-Nazis group seen in this clip. They wear the same hats, khakis and gatherers on their faces when they go to Pride events, Juneteenth parades and other events.

The Patriot Front may appear dumb here, but they are very clever at avoiding being prosecuted for their use of threats online and in person. One organization that figured out how to fight them is the called
Task Force Butler Institute. Their tag line: Veterans Fighting Fascism

From the Task Force Butler website under What We Do

Hold Extremists Accountable

For far too long neo-nazi, white supremacist, and fascist organizations have been able to terrorize vulnerable Americans and erode our democracy without paying a price.

We provide the resources and support necessary to ensure that those who want to destroy our pluralistic society pay for the damage that they’ve done to targeted minority groups and our democracy.

Whether it’s providing courtroom-ready evidence for legal accountability, or providing reports for activists to use in community education campaigns, we’re working to make sure that Americans have the information that they need to fight back.

I saw Kristofer Goldsmith, the founder and CEO of Task Force Butler, on MSNBC and was impressed by his understanding of the group’s attacks. In the first part of this video with Nicolle Wallace he describes how the Patriot Front works and how to bust them. In this part of the clip he gives an example of how they threatened his mother and how law enforcement failed to act. This is really important. We have seen that the use of threats of violence is successful for the right wing. When local law enforcement and FBI ignore threats, they keep happening.

Task Force Butler is doing what needs to be done. They are working all the angles to hold these people accountable. They understand how RW groups use the law and law enforcement’s fear of prosecuting them. More people need to understand how to defeat RW extremists, and Task Force Butler shows people how.

Check out Task Force Butler’s Community Response Guide for people “just getting started in taking a stand against the fascist street gangs trying to spread hate in their neighborhood.“

Task Force Butler’s Street Teams Guide is “designed to improve the safety and effectiveness of coordinated anti-fascist research and action by established community groups who consider themselves experienced practitioners in performing work against organized, fascist street gangs.” That’s because they know that fascist groups will go after ANYONE who threatens them. So the Street Team Guide anticipates the tricks the fascists use and gives community groups the methods (and legal statutes) to bust them.) For example, this is from page 6.

What more can we say about the Patriot Front? I like how Gene Wilder described them to Cleavon Little in Blazing Saddles.

The men in Patriot Front are: “The common clay in the new West. You know, morons.”
From Blazing Saddles 1974. Written by Mel Brooks, Norman Steinberg, Andrew Bergman, Richard Pryor & Alan Uger

Today’s news on Trump’s national security crimes:

Trump Leaked Nuclear Sub Secrets To Australian Businessman
Susie Madrak, Oct 6, 2023 Crooks and Liars

I dropped my Photoshopped illustration in the comments section of Suzie’s article at Crooks and Liars. I then popped over to Salon to read their article titled, “Tip of the iceberg”: Experts sound the alarm after Trump blabbed nuclear secrets at Mar-a-Lago by Igor Derysh where I read the various excuses given by Trump’s spokespeople:

A Trump spokesperson told ABC News that the report lacks “proper context and relevant information.”

“President Trump did nothing wrong, has always insisted on truth and transparency, and acted in a proper manner, according to the law,” the spokesperson said.

Igor Derysh, Salon, Oct 6, 2023

The story also included excuses from the Australian billionaire, Anthony Pratt, why it was okay that he got this information they included:
1) It might not be accurate info, because he never saw any documents
2) We are allies and share this stuff anyway
3) Even if the enemies did find out the details they already know them, so it’s no big deal.
4) Bottom line. Trump helped secure a $40 billion dollar contract, so America got the money instead of France.

The story also talked about how Pratt talked to Jack Smith about this, but it wasn’t part of the charges against Trump.

Tonight on Cable News we’ll hear from experts on the national security violations. But what I want to hear are NOT the excuses used by Trump’s spokespeople, the Australian billionaire, the intelligence community, or the DOJ explainers on TV why this wasn’t part of Trump’s charges from Jack Smith.

What I want to talk about is how the media gives Trump time to throw up excuses over and over without cutting them down, in advance! Right now they follow this process, they are first taken seriously, then debunked and then finally mocked by the late night comedy shows.
(He’s my mocking image of Trump’s lie that he declassified the documents before he left the White House.)

“We’re no longer arguing of whether Donald Trump committed crimes, we’re arguing over how to let him get away with it because he’s Donald Trump.”

MediumDave

Some of the MSM understand the pattern that Trump is using with the MSM. But Team Trump KNOWS that the MSM will duly report each excuses, they will have on an expert to explain it’s BS and then Trump will throw out another. They repeat this process for years, as if they can’t break out of it.

Chris Hayes: “They have just been frantically cycling through excuses…trying to come up with some explanation for why Trump had 11 sets of classified documents…they have abandoned, however, each excuse almost as soon as they put it out because they have all been so implausible.”

I went looking for articles on the excuses that Trump uses and found a bunch.

At this point, these pieces should be like the story of prisoners giving the numbers of a joke instead of the joke itself.
“Then Trump gave a number 3 excuse, followed by numbers 5, 6, 7 and 9 excuse. “

The DOJ doesn’t want to appear “political” when they are prosecuting a crime. The slightly good news is they have stopped bending over backwards to give Trump the “benefit of the doubt” when he comes out and threatens witnesses and judicial staff. Jack Smith now destroys Trump’s excuses in their latest motion. But the media aren’t using this same tactic with new stories they break. One of the reasons that the MSM continues to use this method of giving Trump and his people the opportunity to throw out all their lame excuses, is they won’t write stories in an adversarial fashion AT THE TIME they are talking to people. Instead they take down what the spokesperson says, repeat it, thereby letting the BS get out. What could they do instead? I envision someone like Mehdi Hasan replying to their response (with a few swear words). It would look a little like this.

“So, a Trump spokesperson told me that the report lacks “proper context and relevant information.” I said, ‘ARE YOU F*CKING KIDDING ME?” What kind of context would make this okay? Seriously, please tell me. And be specific. “

And when they say, “President Trump did nothing wrong, has always insisted on truth and transparency, and acted in a proper manner, according to the law,”
My swearing Mehdi would reply with, “COME ON MAN! Are you really still pushing the line that sharing National Security Information with someone NOT in the government, in forum that is open dozens of unvetted people is proper? What is your basis in fact, that this is according to the law, because I’ve got the legal statutes this violates right here in my hand.”

Then after watching the spokesperson babble with whataboutism and non-answers I’d then turn to the experts who and move to the NEXT level question:

I’d ask the experts to explain, “What are the forces that are HELPING Trump say out of jail for this? Are we in the media and you in the expert community PART of the process that keeps Trump out of jail? Then I’d ask a DIFFERENT kind of Expert. Like maybe a media political and social media communications expert and ask,
What can we on the left do to bust these Forces that help keep Trump out of jail?
As an example, I’d ask them to bring up as an example, the next lame excuse that will be floated. I’d ask, “How it can this excuse be destroyed BEFORE it is used?”

This is the PROACTIVE move that someone should be doing. But nobody is. The MSM don’t see it as their job. The communications experts won’t tell the Democrats to go on the attack because of the instant whining from the right. “SEE? The Democrats are attacking us for totally political reasons! Trump didn’t break any laws! (Which is just what they do now, and what they‘ll do if they get Trump back in power. )


I’ve been a consultant, and when I tell a client, “He is what you should do.” I also say, “And here is what you should do when they reply like this.”

Keep anticipating their BS and delay tactics. Learn and USE their history of lies against them. USE their constant escalation and doubling down on threats and violence against them. Show the world, not just the court, how their action hurt people.

I know how the media is played by the RW. I know how the norms of the MSM still haven’t totally adjusted to Trump’s methods. I know that the Dems still haven’t adjusted to the gaming of messages and control of social media platforms by the RW. We can use jokes as well as messages, but we need to keep pushing the message of the crimes of Trump. No more excuses.

Cross posted to Spocko’s Brain
It’s time for the media to destroy Trump’s old excuse list instantly, then preempt new ones @spocko@mastodon.online

Donald’s Trump’s threats on social media MIGHT finally lead to legal consequences for him. Woo hoo! Today it was revealed that in Trump’s pretrial conditions in the Georgia RICO case he is forbidden from making any “direct or indirect threat of any nature against the community or to any property in the community,” including in “posts on social media or reposts of posts” by others on social media.

Wow. It took a long time to get here, especially considering all the other times he intimidated and threatened witnesses on social media. Remember Alexander Vindman? Marie Yovanovitch, US Ambassador to Ukrainian? But now, because he’s under pretrial conditions and protective orders issued by a judge in our legal system, he MIGHT be charged with witness tampering. It’s one of the reasons that we needed to get him in this position. It’s the difference between lying to the media and on social media to the public, vs lying in court under oath.

Keep Normalizing Jail For Trump

Every time these conditions are set I watch the cable hosts and legal analysts talk about how pretrial jailing is not going to happen. But some, like Glenn Kirschner, have said, “It’s time to detain Trump pending trial.” Kirschner has made some videos with the compelling reasons Trump should be put in jail. The legal experts and the media are finally starting to discuss the possibility that pretrial detention is more and more likely. Good! I’m on board the “Jail Trump” train. But before that, what else can the judge do? Last week i wrote about what happens when Trump violates his protective order or pretrial conditions.

Today I heard former Federal prosecutor Will Rollins explain to Brian Tyler Cohen that a judge can forbid Trump from posting anything on social media or require Trump to provide all his social media posts ahead of time to his defense attorneys to certify they aren’t being used for witness intimidation. If they do, the attorney can lose their bar card. HA! That would be fun to see.

I like the idea of Trump physically in jail because it would stop HIM from threatening people on social media, since he won’t personally be able to post on #TruthSocial, his own personal social media platform. He also won’t be able to threaten people at a rally. And, unless he gets to do a jailhouse interview with Tucker Carlson, there will be no live interviews.

Trump’s constant use of threats works for him politically and if we can’t stop them completely, we need a way to limit them. So it’s great that a judge FINALLY imposed a gag order on Trump in his Georgia RICO case.

Now, when he keeps making threats, we look for ways to make it hurt him and those people who knowingly and intentionally aid and abet Trump in the commission of his witness tampering.

What’s The Strategy to Beat Trump on Social Media?

Trump uses social media to talk directly to the public. It lets him set the narrative. One of his current narratives is that Biden and “big tech” is trying to limit his free speech. But threats of violence are not protected speech. We need to keep educating everyone on what is and is not protected speech.

We also need to remember that private entities can restrict what is said on their platform.

Remember how Facebook and Twitter give Trump special treatment until it was no longer possible to ignore his threats? Then he used Twitter to incite violence on January 6th. After January 6th, Twitter and Facebook banned him.

Facebook made some changes, put in some new guidelines and welcomed him back. Do you think “the temperature” has gone down? No! But he doesn’t need to post directly on Facebook. He has his own social media platform. And, in addition, it’s repeated on Twitter/X, Facebook and in the MSM. (Marcy Wheeler reminds us not to run his posts without breaking them up. Don’t be a data mule for his messages! )
Because of the reposting TFG gets all the benefits of the big social media platforms without the possibility of restrictions. Nothing he says will be removed. But it’s not as if Truth Social doesn’t have Terms of Service, they do!

In Truth Social’s Terms of Service it says:
“your contributions do not advocate or incite, encourage, or threaten physical harm against another. And, “your contributions do not violate any applicable law, regulation, or rule.”
They have consequences for people who violate their TOS and posting threatening speech.

And before you say, “They’ll never enforce any TOS on their contributors”. You should know that Truth Social gave law enforcement info on the man in Utah who threatened Biden. (In fact, they acted when Meta/Facebook did not!) Truth Social alerted the FBI about a user threatening Biden and other Democrats. Facebook seemingly failed to even moderate the violent posts.

So, will they enforce their Terms of Service on Trump? They should. If they don’t, this is where we look at the laws that apply to people or companies that KNOWINGLY and WILLINGLY participate in witness tampering.

You might recall how Musk fought a subpoena about turning over evidence to Jack Smith, He wanted to violate the rules of the subpoena that said NOT to tell the subject that their data was being subpoenaed. They were fined $350,000. Look, I don’t want to go all Fani Willis RICO here, but we can’t just let the social media companies enable Trump’s crimes and the crimes of his followers.

We know that Zuckerberg kept people on Facebook who made threats because they had political connections and/or high engagement. We know that Elon Musk has replatformed and is now PAYING Nazis to post on X. If Devin Nunes, the CEO of Truth Social, is asked to remove Trump’s witness tampering posts and does NOT, could that be considered aiding and abetting Trump in the commission of a crime?

There are specific laws that could compel Truth Social to remove witness tampering threats. These laws exist. Here’s the law enforcement process for Truth Social. The process for Facebook/Instagram is described under Legal Removal Request.

I listened to a Twitter Space, I mean an X Space, the other day about Elon Musk’s proposal to ban the block button. Some fan boys and girls talked about how it was a very very smart business decision. But other women and men talked about the very real impact of threats and harassment on the platform have on people. I heard stories of subpoenas being issued by law enforcement to remove threats of violence and the company had to comply. The non-fan boys pointed out that this wasn’t “a few flamers” in the comments section with differences of opinions. They were serious, true threats to people.

Finally, when Donald Trump breaks his pretrial conditions and protective orders, by witness tampering people on social media, he will be sanctioned, up to and including jail. Then we keep fighting. Because we can’t let the social media companies off the hook when they don’t manage their own platform while it is being used to harm people.

How to help the victims of harassment and threats on social media

In April I suggested that the City of New York should monetize the threats Trump and his people make. This would be a civil case in addition to the criminal trial.

The people on the various jurys around the country who are being threatened and intimidated by Trump and his followers should be able to sue in a civil court. The jurys are going to be anonymous, but the CITIES will know who they are, they should be prepared for the threats against them.

And it’s not just Trump, there are others doing the intimidation. Junior, Marge, And Eric Trump Go After Judge’s Daughter. These harassers, defamers and threateners have jobs, assets & are connected to people with money. They aren’t lone wolf RWNJs. Trace them, record them, find them, arrest them and charge them. Then make them pay. This is possible. Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss won their multimillion dollar defamation case against One America News. They are on their way to winning their case against Rudy Giuliani.

St. Luke’s Hospital won their harassment and defamation case against Ammon Bundy, his co-defendant, their two mob organization and Bundy’s Campaign for Governor. They were ordered to pay $52.5 million dollars. Then, when Bundy didn’t, they put him in jail.

Cross posted on Spocko’s Brain. Will Trump’s threats on social media send him to jail?

“What will happen next WHEN Trump violates the protective order or his pretrial conditions?”
I asked Lisa Graves, former Deputy Assistant Attorney General, this question on the Nicole Sandler Show.
She explained the steps the judge can take before putting Trump in jail for contempt.

Partial transcript for readers from the August 11, 2023 episode of the Nicole Sandler Show. Link to the full show

Spocko: We know Trump’s going to violate them. Who files the motion? Where does it come from? How does the judge decide on a show cause hearing? Could you explain that part and then the next step showing the difference pieces that are going to happen to get to the judge issuing a stern warning, or a contempt charge.

Lisa Graves: Contempt is a power that judges hold, it’s their power, they can act without a motion on any act that is in contempt of court. So she doesn’t need a motion from the prosecutor to hold Trump in contempt she can make that determination herself based on his actions. She can also entertain a motion I suppose from the prosecutor to hold them in contempt but that’s not necessary.

She could ask for briefing on that I suppose, but in general–again–that’s not necessarily something that’s even briefed typically.

If a party is in contempt the Court handles that as a matter of her or his role as the adjudicator in that courtroom and can devise any number of appropriate steps to respond to that contempt. There could be a requirement, as I mentioned to Nicole, that he be held in contempt and be sent to jail. She could have that. She could issue that order and sort of delay it to until after the trial, so that he’s not, you know staying overnight in jail between dates of trial. She could issue a fine, impose a fine and then another fine for every single instance, and order that that be paid. She could do both she could issue other consequences for contempt.

You know of course she has to ensure that the trial is fair so that any result can be sustained on appeal, so she can’t just basically rule against him and hold him guilty, find him guilty over a decision of a jury she doesn’t have that power. She has to have the trial continue. I do think it’s possible that his behavior could be disruptive, although he’s been quiet in court. But he could certainly, at some point, be so disruptive to try to cause a mistrial. That could be a tactic that I could see him deploying. And then she’d have to weigh how to deal with his contemptuous activities in court if he were to do so, and what that means in terms of the ability to have the trial continue to its conclusion in order to protect a fair trial.

In short there’s a number of things that a judge has the inherent power to do other than in a criminal trial to rule basically to find the defendant guilty if he’s requested a jury trial, which he has a right to request under the Constitution. And so I am confident, that other than judge Cannon who I have no confidence in whatsoever administering her role fairly, but for the other judges involved, I’m confident that they will protect the Integrity of the Court and act appropriately to hold him in contempt, as you say WHEN he acts with contempt of court. Which he will. He will not get away with it.

August 11, 2023 episode of the Nicole Sandler Show. Link to the full show

She referenced Glenn Kirschner because earlier in the week I had asked Glenn about the process of violation of pretrial conditions. He put out an EXCELLENT explainer video titled “Just 24 hours after being told by judge not to threaten witnesses, Trump appears to violate order” I highly recommend it. It’s 13 minutes long so edited it to 2:20, put in subtitles and posted it on Mastodon. I’m @spocko@Mastodon.online

Trump violates his pretrial conditions. What happens next? Glenn Kirschner on show cause orders. YouTube link

Finally, before you say #LOCKHIMUP, I suggest you read Teri Kanefield‘s excellent comprehensive post on violating a Protective Order. Mastodon: @Teri_Kanefield@law-and-politics.online
Trump’s Criminal Prosecutions, his Social Media Posts, and the Importance of Staying Off Ledges

In that post she shares the penalties and sanctions for violating the conditions of release: imprisonment, a fine or both. If Trump commits a federal felony offense while on release, the punishment is an ADDITIONAL prison term of not more than ten years. For a federal misdemeanor the punishment is an ADDITIONAL prison term of not more than 1 year. To be served consecutive to any sentence you receive.
Fines of $250,000 or $100,000 can be imposed.

I’m posting these three legal experts comments on Trump’s legal situation because I believe it’s important for us to understand how the law can be applied. He maybe losing the legal cases in court but in the “court of public opinion” and his political campaign his message is strong. As an activist and blogger, I look at ways to help us fight the Right Wing in the media and on Social Media.

Trump has a media, social media and political strategy for everything he does. I pointed out the other day I don’t see a coordinated campaign against him in social media. Right now, instead of blocking his messages on Twitter, people are reposting Trump’s exact “Truths” on #X / #Twitter

Marcy Wheeler, @emptywheel@mastodon.social, has explained that doing that turns us into data mules for his messages. She recommends we breaking up his posts from #TruthSocial.
Here is an example of of how I blew up his lame excuse.

The MSM has a really hard time wrapping their head around Trump being compelled, by law, to NOT TALK ABOUT CERTAIN THINGS. In Glenn’s video he explained that the judge can determine if what Trump says is a violation of his pretrial condition. In Lisa’s video she explained what the judge can do following a violation of a protective order. In Teri Kanefield’s article she explains why some posts by Trump are in vague “mob speak” so they might not technically be a legal violation. I look forward seeing Trump face consequences for his legal violations.

But we also need to help the people who are threatened, harassed and intimidated online and on social media by Trump and his followers. I’ve been writing about threats to health care workers, election officials and activists for years. I’ve also been working behind the scenes on ways to help those people get justice, and compensation, for the damage they have suffered. Next week I’ll do a piece about the huge success by St. Luke’s Hospital in a civil case against Ammon Bundy and his mob for defamation and threatening their staff. And, how to it’s possible to put a political cult leader in jail for contempt. And without bloodshed.

cross posted at Spocko’s Brain