My question is “So how do we stop them?” There IS a way, and we need to act. Before you go into the, “Yeah, but…” read the whole piece, he lays out several steps to take, starting with changing our attitudes. We have to stop treating them as they want to be treated, as 9 law shamans. We need to treat them as “politicians in robes.”
This court has proven with its actions—through one politically motivated decision after another—that it is unfit to wield the power that it does.”
I’m an activist so I know that there are multiple steps to make something happen. Elie starts out with changing how we in the public perceive the court.
Mystal, “The first step toward stopping the Supreme Court’s political actions is to treat the justices as political actors and subject them to all of the scrutiny, pressure, and protest normal political actors face every day. ” I like the way my friend Lisa Graves referred to them, “Politicians in robes.”
Elie points out that how we treat politicians in American is very different than how we treat Supreme Court Justices. We questions them, we have processes for getting rid of them when they do a bad job. We need to do the same with Supreme Court Justices. Part of our perception comes from how the media treats them. That needs to change. When our perception of the court changes, so should our response to them.
I LOVE the work that has been done by ProPublica on the corruption in the court, but the history of Thomas’ corruption has been known for a LONG time. What I’ve seen happen is that when corruption in the court is reveale, all the excuses pop up. “Sorry, nothing can be done!” I’ll ask a question like “Why can’t someone force Thomas to recuse?” and I’ll get a history lesson and answers about the separation of powers, so then I ask, “What do we have to do to change that, so that there are mandatory ethical rules and consequences for violating them?”
Lisa Graves is going to be on the Nicole Sandler show again on, Feb 5, 2024 if you want to listen live & ask a question it’s at 5ET/2PT. I’d like her to walk through the reasons given for no action. What steps need to be taken? Who needs to take them? Who does the public put pressure on? What do we demand? What are the excuses that will be used? What are our responses to the excuses?
Clarence Thomas should recuse and resign. He should impeached for his corruption. He should hang up his robe and cry.
The song is from The Parody Project & is called, “Hang Up Your Robe Judge Thomas,” It’s based on the song Tom Dooley. This is a short, speeded up version.
Listen to the whole song & show on the Nicole Sandler Show last weekLisa Graves talked about corruption in the Supreme Court. (Graves was Chief Counsel for Nominations for the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee for Sen Leahy) She recently wrote about how Thomas should have recused in the Colorado case. She then explained that when Clarence Thomas did NOT recuse on the Bush V. Gore case, Ginni Thomas got more than a million dollars from the Heritage Foundation after Clarence voted in that 5-4 decision. Ginni was promoted at the Heritage Foundation and began advising the Bush White House on appointments.
Read Grave’s whole article here: Clarence Thomas Has No Shame. But You Knew That. Not recusing in a case such as this is unprecedented. It’s wrong. And it’s an appalling testament to how corrupted, how political, and how morally bankrupt the Roberts Court really is.
I’m all for FORCING Thomas off the bench. It might take impeachment, an indictment of Ginni Thomas, new stories about Clarence Thomas’s corruption, or Congress passing ethics laws for the Supreme Court. We really can’t let things continue as they have been. I like how Elie put it. “We must demand that our political leaders share with us their plans for stopping the court, in just the same way we demand to hear their plans to fix infrastructure or lower taxes.” YES! And, if they give mealy mouth answers, start the drum beat for real solutions.
Finally, Elie said, “all of us need to recognize how dangerous the court is. We are ruled by this court because we are too disunified and distracted to resist it. That has to end, because these nine people will not stop devouring democracy until there is none left to eat.”
The White Nationalist group Patriot Front was confused by the turnstiles at NYC’s World Trade Center PATH station. It reminded me of this classic turnstile scene with Slim Pickens in Blazing Saddles.
But seriously folks, who is the Patriot Front and how can they be defeated once they figure out how to use turnstiles? In June I talked to Matt Binder on the Doomed podcast about Patriot Front, the Neo-Nazis group seen in this clip. They wear the same hats, khakis and gatherers on their faces when they go to Pride events, Juneteenth parades and other events.
The Patriot Front may appear dumb here, but they are very clever at avoiding being prosecuted for their use of threats online and in person. One organization that figured out how to fight them is the called Task Force Butler Institute. Their tag line: Veterans Fighting Fascism
For far too long neo-nazi, white supremacist, and fascist organizations have been able to terrorize vulnerable Americans and erode our democracy without paying a price.
We provide the resources and support necessary to ensure that those who want to destroy our pluralistic society pay for the damage that they’ve done to targeted minority groups and our democracy.
Whether it’s providing courtroom-ready evidence for legal accountability, or providing reports for activists to use in community education campaigns, we’re working to make sure that Americans have the information that they need to fight back.
I saw Kristofer Goldsmith, the founder and CEO of Task Force Butler, on MSNBC and was impressed by his understanding of the group’s attacks. In the first part of this video with Nicolle Wallace he describes how the Patriot Front works and how to bust them. In this part of the clip he gives an example of how they threatened his mother and how law enforcement failed to act. This is really important. We have seen that the use of threats of violence is successful for the right wing. When local law enforcement and FBI ignore threats, they keep happening.
Task Force Butler is doing what needs to be done. They are working all the angles to hold these people accountable. They understand how RW groups use the law and law enforcement’s fear of prosecuting them. More people need to understand how to defeat RW extremists, and Task Force Butler shows people how.
Check out Task Force Butler’sCommunity Response Guidefor people “just getting started in taking a stand against the fascist street gangs trying to spread hate in their neighborhood.“
Task Force Butler’s Street Teams Guide is “designed to improve the safety and effectiveness of coordinated anti-fascist research and action by established community groups who consider themselves experienced practitioners in performing work against organized, fascist street gangs.” That’s because they know that fascist groups will go after ANYONE who threatens them. So the Street Team Guide anticipates the tricks the fascists use and gives community groups the methods (and legal statutes) to bust them.) For example, this is from page 6.
What more can we say about the Patriot Front? I like how Gene Wilder described them to Cleavon Little in Blazing Saddles.
The men in Patriot Front are: “The common clay in the new West. You know, morons.” From Blazing Saddles 1974. Written by Mel Brooks, Norman Steinberg, Andrew Bergman, Richard Pryor & Alan Uger
A Trump spokesperson told ABC News that the report lacks “proper context and relevant information.”
“President Trump did nothing wrong, has always insisted on truth and transparency, and acted in a proper manner, according to the law,” the spokesperson said.
Igor Derysh, Salon, Oct 6, 2023
The story also included excuses from the Australian billionaire, Anthony Pratt, why it was okay that he got this information they included: 1) It might not be accurate info, because he never saw any documents 2) We are allies and share this stuff anyway 3) Even if the enemies did find out the details they already know them, so it’s no big deal. 4) Bottom line. Trump helped secure a $40 billion dollar contract, so America got the money instead of France.
The story also talked about how Pratt talked to Jack Smith about this, but it wasn’t part of the charges against Trump.
Tonight on Cable News we’ll hear from experts on the national security violations. But what I want to hear are NOT the excuses used by Trump’s spokespeople, the Australian billionaire, the intelligence community, or the DOJ explainers on TV why this wasn’t part of Trump’s charges from Jack Smith.
What I want to talk about is how the media gives Trump time to throw up excuses over and over without cutting them down, in advance! Right now they follow this process, they are first taken seriously, then debunked and then finally mocked by the late night comedy shows. (He’s my mocking image of Trump’s lie that he declassified the documents before he left the White House.)
“We’re no longer arguing of whether Donald Trump committed crimes, we’re arguing over how to let him get away with it because he’s Donald Trump.”
MediumDave
Some of the MSM understand the pattern that Trump is using with the MSM. But Team Trump KNOWS that the MSM will duly report each excuses, they will have on an expert to explain it’s BS and then Trump will throw out another. They repeat this process for years, as if they can’t break out of it.
Chris Hayes: “They have just been frantically cycling through excuses…trying to come up with some explanation for why Trump had 11 sets of classified documents…they have abandoned, however, each excuse almost as soon as they put it out because they have all been so implausible.”
I went looking for articles on the excuses that Trump uses and found a bunch.
At this point, these pieces should be like the story of prisoners giving the numbers of a joke instead of the joke itself. “Then Trump gave a number 3 excuse, followed by numbers 5, 6, 7 and 9 excuse. “
The DOJ doesn’t want to appear “political” when they are prosecuting a crime. The slightly good news is they have stopped bending over backwards to give Trump the “benefit of the doubt” when he comes out and threatens witnesses and judicial staff. Jack Smith now destroys Trump’s excuses in their latest motion. But the media aren’t using this same tactic with new stories they break. One of the reasons that the MSM continues to use this method of giving Trump and his people the opportunity to throw out all their lame excuses, is they won’t write stories in an adversarial fashion AT THE TIME they are talking to people. Instead they take down what the spokesperson says, repeat it, thereby letting the BS get out. What could they do instead? I envision someone like Mehdi Hasan replying to their response (with a few swear words). It would look a little like this.
“So, a Trump spokesperson told me that the report lacks “proper context and relevant information.” I said, ‘ARE YOU F*CKING KIDDING ME?” What kind of context would make this okay? Seriously, please tell me. And be specific. “
And when they say, “President Trump did nothing wrong, has always insisted on truth and transparency, and acted in a proper manner, according to the law,” My swearing Mehdi would reply with, “COME ON MAN! Are you really still pushing the line that sharing National Security Information with someone NOT in the government, in forum that is open dozens of unvetted people is proper? What is your basis in fact, that this is according to the law, because I’ve got the legal statutes this violates right here in my hand.”
Then after watching the spokesperson babble with whataboutism and non-answers I’d then turn to the experts who and move to the NEXT level question:
I’d ask the experts to explain, “What are the forces that are HELPING Trump say out of jail for this? Are we in the media and you in the expert community PART of the process that keeps Trump out of jail? Then I’d ask a DIFFERENT kind of Expert. Like maybe a media political and social media communications expert and ask, What can we on the left do to bust these Forces that help keep Trump out of jail? As an example, I’d ask them to bring up as an example, the next lame excuse that will be floated. I’d ask, “How it can this excuse be destroyed BEFORE it is used?”
This is the PROACTIVE move that someone should be doing. But nobody is. The MSM don’t see it as their job. The communications experts won’t tell the Democrats to go on the attack because of the instant whining from the right. “SEE? The Democrats are attacking us for totally political reasons! Trump didn’t break any laws! (Which is just what they do now, and what they‘ll do if they get Trump back in power. )
I’ve been a consultant, and when I tell a client, “He is what you should do.” I also say, “And here is what you should do when they reply like this.”
Keep anticipating their BS and delay tactics. Learn and USE their history of lies against them. USE their constant escalation and doubling down on threats and violence against them. Show the world, not just the court, how their action hurt people.
I know how the media is played by the RW. I know how the norms of the MSM still haven’t totally adjusted to Trump’s methods. I know that the Dems still haven’t adjusted to the gaming of messages and control of social media platforms by the RW. We can use jokes as well as messages, but we need to keep pushing the message of the crimes of Trump. No more excuses.
Donald’s Trump’s threats on social media MIGHT finally lead to legal consequences for him. Woo hoo! Today it was revealed that in Trump’s pretrial conditions in the Georgia RICO case he is forbidden from making any “direct or indirect threat of any nature against the community or to any property in the community,” including in “posts on social media or reposts of posts” by others on social media.
Trump’s pretrial conditions from Georgia RICO case
Wow. It took a long time to get here, especially considering all the other times he intimidated and threatened witnesses on social media. Remember Alexander Vindman? Marie Yovanovitch, US Ambassador to Ukrainian? But now, because he’s under pretrial conditions and protective orders issued by a judge in our legal system, he MIGHT be charged with witness tampering. It’s one of the reasons that we needed to get him in this position. It’s the difference between lying to the media and on social media to the public, vs lying in court under oath.
Keep Normalizing Jail For Trump
Every time these conditions are set I watch the cable hosts and legal analysts talk about how pretrial jailing is not going to happen. But some, like Glenn Kirschner, have said, “It’s time to detain Trump pending trial.” Kirschner has made some videos with the compelling reasons Trump should be put in jail. The legal experts and the media are finally starting to discuss the possibility that pretrial detention is more and more likely. Good! I’m on board the “Jail Trump” train. But before that, what else can the judge do? Last week i wrote about what happens when Trump violates his protective order or pretrial conditions.
I like the idea of Trump physically in jail because it would stop HIM from threatening people on social media, since he won’t personally be able to post on #TruthSocial, his own personal social media platform. He also won’t be able to threaten people at a rally. And, unless he gets to do a jailhouse interview with Tucker Carlson, there will be no live interviews.
Trump’s constant use of threats works for him politically and if we can’t stop them completely, we need a way to limit them. So it’s great that a judge FINALLY imposed a gag order on Trump in his Georgia RICO case.
Now, when he keeps making threats, we look for ways to make it hurt him and those people who knowingly and intentionally aid and abet Trump in the commission of his witness tampering.
What’s The Strategy to Beat Trump on Social Media?
Trump uses social media to talk directly to the public. It lets him set the narrative. One of his current narratives is that Biden and “big tech” is trying to limit his free speech. But threats of violence are not protected speech. We need to keep educating everyone on what is and is not protected speech.
We also need to remember that private entities can restrict what is said on their platform.
Remember how Facebook and Twitter give Trump special treatment until it was no longer possible to ignore his threats? Then he used Twitter to incite violence on January 6th. After January 6th, Twitter and Facebook banned him.
Facebook made some changes, put in some new guidelines and welcomed him back. Do you think “the temperature” has gone down? No! But he doesn’t need to post directly on Facebook. He has his own social media platform. And, in addition, it’s repeated on Twitter/X, Facebook and in the MSM. (Marcy Wheeler reminds us not to run his posts without breaking them up. Don’t be a data mule for his messages! ) Because of the reposting TFG gets all the benefits of the big social media platforms without the possibility of restrictions. Nothing he says will be removed. But it’s not as if Truth Social doesn’t have Terms of Service, they do!
In Truth Social’s Terms of Service it says: “your contributions do not advocate or incite, encourage, or threaten physical harm against another. And, “your contributions do not violate any applicable law, regulation, or rule.” They have consequences for people who violate their TOS and posting threatening speech.
So, will they enforce their Terms of Service on Trump? They should. If they don’t, this is where we look at the laws that apply to people or companies that KNOWINGLY and WILLINGLY participate in witness tampering.
You might recall how Musk fought a subpoena about turning over evidence to Jack Smith, He wanted to violate the rules of the subpoena that said NOT to tell the subject that their data was being subpoenaed. They were fined $350,000. Look, I don’t want to go all Fani Willis RICO here, but we can’t just let the social media companies enable Trump’s crimes and the crimes of his followers.
We know that Zuckerberg kept people on Facebook who made threats because they had political connections and/or high engagement. We know that Elon Musk has replatformed and is now PAYING Nazis to post on X. If Devin Nunes, the CEO of Truth Social, is asked to remove Trump’s witness tampering posts and does NOT, could that be considered aiding and abetting Trump in the commission of a crime?
I listened to a Twitter Space, I mean an X Space, the other day about Elon Musk’s proposal to ban the block button. Some fan boys and girls talked about how it was a very very smart business decision. But other women and men talked about the very real impact of threats and harassment on the platform have on people. I heard stories of subpoenas being issued by law enforcement to remove threats of violence and the company had to comply. The non-fan boys pointed out that this wasn’t “a few flamers” in the comments section with differences of opinions. They were serious, true threats to people.
Finally, when Donald Trump breaks his pretrial conditions and protective orders, by witness tampering people on social media, he will be sanctioned, up to and including jail. Then we keep fighting. Because we can’t let the social media companies off the hook when they don’t manage their own platform while it is being used to harm people.
How to help the victims of harassment and threats on social media
The people on the various jurys around the country who are being threatened and intimidated by Trump and his followers should be able to sue in a civil court. The jurys are going to be anonymous, but the CITIES will know who they are, they should be prepared for the threats against them.
“What will happen next WHEN Trump violates the protective order or his pretrial conditions?” I asked Lisa Graves, former Deputy Assistant Attorney General, this question on the Nicole Sandler Show. She explained the steps the judge can take before putting Trump in jail for contempt.
Partial transcript for readers from the August 11, 2023 episode of the Nicole Sandler Show. Link to the full show
Spocko: We know Trump’s going to violate them. Who files the motion? Where does it come from? How does the judge decide on a show cause hearing? Could you explain that part and then the next step showing the difference pieces that are going to happen to get to the judge issuing a stern warning, or a contempt charge.
Lisa Graves: Contempt is a power that judges hold, it’s their power, they can act without a motion on any act that is in contempt of court. So she doesn’t need a motion from the prosecutor to hold Trump in contempt she can make that determination herself based on his actions. She can also entertain a motion I suppose from the prosecutor to hold them in contempt but that’s not necessary.
She could ask for briefing on that I suppose, but in general–again–that’s not necessarily something that’s even briefed typically.
If a party is in contempt the Court handles that as a matter of her or his role as the adjudicator in that courtroom and can devise any number of appropriate steps to respond to that contempt. There could be a requirement, as I mentioned to Nicole, that he be held in contempt and be sent to jail. She could have that. She could issue that order and sort of delay it to until after the trial, so that he’s not, you know staying overnight in jail between dates of trial. She could issue a fine, impose a fine and then another fine for every single instance, and order that that be paid. She could do both she could issue other consequences for contempt.
You know of course she has to ensure that the trial is fair so that any result can be sustained on appeal, so she can’t just basically rule against him and hold him guilty, find him guilty over a decision of a jury she doesn’t have that power. She has to have the trial continue. I do think it’s possible that his behavior could be disruptive, although he’s been quiet in court. But he could certainly, at some point, be so disruptive to try to cause a mistrial. That could be a tactic that I could see him deploying. And then she’d have to weigh how to deal with his contemptuous activities in court if he were to do so, and what that means in terms of the ability to have the trial continue to its conclusion in order to protect a fair trial.
In short there’s a number of things that a judge has the inherent power to do other than in a criminal trial to rule basically to find the defendant guilty if he’s requested a jury trial, which he has a right to request under the Constitution. And so I am confident, that other than judge Cannon who I have no confidence in whatsoever administering her role fairly, but for the other judges involved, I’m confident that they will protect the Integrity of the Court and act appropriately to hold him in contempt, as you say WHEN he acts with contempt of court. Which he will. He will not get away with it.
She referenced Glenn Kirschner because earlier in the week I had asked Glenn about the process of violation of pretrial conditions. He put out an EXCELLENT explainer video titled “Just 24 hours after being told by judge not to threaten witnesses, Trump appears to violate order” I highly recommend it. It’s 13 minutes long so edited it to 2:20, put in subtitles and posted it on Mastodon. I’m @spocko@Mastodon.online
Trump violates his pretrial conditions. What happens next? Glenn Kirschner on show cause orders. YouTube link
In that post she shares the penalties and sanctions for violating the conditions of release: imprisonment, a fine or both. If Trump commits a federal felony offense while on release, the punishment is an ADDITIONAL prison term of not more than ten years. For a federal misdemeanor the punishment is an ADDITIONAL prison term of not more than 1 year. To be served consecutive to any sentence you receive. Fines of $250,000 or $100,000 can be imposed.
I’m posting these three legal experts comments on Trump’s legal situation because I believe it’s important for us to understand how the law can be applied. He maybe losing the legal cases in court but in the “court of public opinion” and his political campaign his message is strong. As an activist and blogger, I look at ways to help us fight the Right Wing in the media and on Social Media.
Trump has a media, social media and political strategy for everything he does. I pointed out the other day I don’t see a coordinated campaign against him in social media. Right now, instead of blocking his messages on Twitter, people are reposting Trump’s exact “Truths” on #X / #Twitter
Marcy Wheeler, @emptywheel@mastodon.social, has explained that doing that turns us into data mules for his messages. She recommends we breaking up his posts from #TruthSocial. Here is an example of of how I blew up his lame excuse.
The MSM has a really hard time wrapping their head around Trump being compelled, by law, to NOT TALK ABOUT CERTAIN THINGS. In Glenn’s video he explained that the judge can determine if what Trump says is a violation of his pretrial condition. In Lisa’s video she explained what the judge can do following a violation of a protective order. In Teri Kanefield’s article she explains why some posts by Trump are in vague “mob speak” so they might not technically be a legal violation. I look forward seeing Trump face consequences for his legal violations.
But we also need to help the people who are threatened, harassed and intimidated online and on social media by Trump and his followers. I’ve been writing about threats to health care workers, election officials and activists for years. I’ve also been working behind the scenes on ways to help those people get justice, and compensation, for the damage they have suffered. Next week I’ll do a piece about the huge success by St. Luke’s Hospital in a civil case against Ammon Bundy and his mob for defamation and threatening their staff. And, how to it’s possible to put a political cult leader in jail for contempt. And without bloodshed.
Here’s my bold statement for 2023: Social media companies in the United States need to be regulated.
Before you start agreeing and explain why it’ll never happen… you should know Meta didn’t launch Threads in the EU. Because of the EU’s REGULATION. It would have led to massive NEW fines and Meta doesn’t want MORE massive fines. It was recently hit with an order to stop sending EU users data to the US for processing and was fined almost $1.3BN for breaching the GDPR’s requirements on data export.
When companies’ actions or inactions harm the public, the public demands something be done. In the EU they’ve recognized the harm being done by social media companies and enacted regulation. Short term, companies pay the fine and change their behavior to stop new fines. This is what we want, what the public deserves. Protection from harm.
Here’s the deal, regulations force companies to change their behaviors. If they don’t, they pay a fine. Big fines gets their attention AND, if they are a public company, it gets the attention of the big shareholders who say “Stop the bleeding! Keep that quarterly revenue growing or we will punish you!”
I want companies to take action on threats of violence and hate speech. Meta has already defined what they consider a threat and hate speech and have said what they will do about them. I’m the nerd who read ALL of Meta’s / Instagram’s /Thread’s Terms of Use. and Community Guidelines . Check this part out:
“We remove content that contains credible threats or hate speech, content that targets private individuals to degrade or shame them, personal information meant to blackmail or harass someone, and repeated unwanted messages. violence, deadly disinformation and hate speech.”
Threads Community Guidelines on threats under Meta/Instagram
The good news is that it appears that Meta is trying to moderate the content on Threads. Read this great Media Matters piece pointing out the methods used by RWNJs & Nazis to test the moderation AND the rhetoric deployed to avoid regulation.
[They ] have postedabout the limits of its moderation, while also questioningwhetherMeta will “censor” them — which is a false claim that right-wing media and figures frequentlyemploy against social media platforms with moderation policies.
Meta wants Threads to be #BrandSafe, so they can get advertising revenue, but they get revenue from other ways, like collecting data on people. And, because Meta is so big, they can run Threads without ads for YEARS if they want while Nazis’ & extremists work the system.
“The brands just need a Twitter-like experience stocked with users that they can point their delirious social media managers to. Their champion has arrived.”
And it’s not as if Meta has a great track record with Instagram. From the Media Matters piece.
Back in 2021, the tech companies told Congress that they would deplatform the 12 biggest spreaders of disinformation on vaccines, but one month later 9 of the 12 were still posting. Including RFK Jr on Facebook. This was BEFORE he announced his run for President, which puts him in the “newsworthy” category. BUT even that category has rules for violations of their policies.
Remember when Meta made special “guardrails” for Donald Trump for when he returned to Facebook? If he violates them he MIGHT be banned again! For a month. Multiple violations maybe another 2 years! What Meta DOESN’T have is outside punishments for failing to uphold its own policies. At least Meta is trying. But what about Musk’s Twitter, or Trump’s Truth Social? Rumble or Gab? They don’t care about profit from advertisers. They don’t have shareholders screaming at them for losing money to force content moderation on them.
Trump posted Obama’s address on Truth Social. Taylor Tranto then showed up at Obama’s address
your Contributions are not obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, violent, harassing, libelous, slanderous, or otherwise objectionable.
your Contributions do not depict violence, threats of violence or criminal activity.
your Contributions do not advocate or incite, encourage, or threaten physical harm against another.
your Contributions do not violate any applicable law, regulation, or rule.
your Contributions do not violate the privacy or publicity rights of any third party.
If you’ve read Trump’s posts there you can spot the violations.
Truth Social says, “Any use of the Service in violation of the foregoing violates these Terms of Service and may result in, among other things, termination or suspension of your rights to use the Service and removal or deletion of your Contributions.” But they don’t HAVE TO do anything.
Trump remains an extreme danger to others. When will law enforcement take appropriate measures to hold him accountable?
Glenn Kirschner did a podcast this weekend making the case that Trump should be in jail. He makes an excellent argument. He used specific examples and his history as a prosecutor of dangerous individuals.
Trump’s statements on Truth Social provide evidence to support why Trump should be in jail. Some of Trump’s posts SHOULD get him suspended from Truth Social. AND, if he posted them natively on other platforms like Threads, should get him banned from posting there too. TFG posts threats on Truth Social knowing that management ( Devin Nunes!) won’t suspend his rights to post, even when they violate Truth Socials own Terms of Service. When Trump’s threats gets reposted on other platform with added context, it’s news. But too often there IS no added context. It’s often just a straight up repeating of the threats and disinformation verbatim.
So what are we going to do about the need for regulation on social media? In America we know how money rules, but we can’t count on “The Market” alone to stop companies from enabling the spread of threats of violence, deadly disinformation and hate speech.
Musk’s Twitter is NOT brand safe, is losing money, has welcomed Nazi supporters, allows and encourages attacks on trans people, and because there is no outside regulation, it keeps going.
Will Meta enforce their own policies? If they don’t, how do we pressure them to be enforced? Do like the EU did and pass regulation! While it’s NOT happening we need to tell the stories of violence, incitement & hate speech coming from RWNJs that are being left up to spread. Show the harm that is being caused because of it. File lawsuits. Work on legislation in the US. Point out that it exists in the EU. Learn from them. It’s not an impossible task.
Companies make decisions every day about who is protected and supported by their products and services. Part of the role of government is to step in and stop the entities that are causing harm to the public.
Oh, btw I did join Threads so I could report violations of their community guidelines… threads.net@spockomichal spoutible.com/spocko Cross posted to Spocko’s Brain
That’s how I’m describing what will happen at the Wilkie D. Ferguson Jr. US Courthouse. The MSM headline won’t call them terrorists or mention the guns they will be carrying concealed. And the hostage isn’t Trump, it’s counter protestors, “Antifa”, journalists covering the event and law enforcement. They are focusing on some of same targets as January 6th.
The Trump supporters are even busing their supporters in like they did on on January 6th. (It doesn’t look like Charlie Kirk is behind the buses this time, but has anyone talked to Ginni Thomas?)
The other hostage is the American public and our sense of feeling safe at protests. When people are armed, deadly violence could happen at any second. It’s not a peaceful protest anymore, it’s a hostage situation.
We KNOW that cops prepare for and treat armed people differently, especially those with a history of violence. When the media knows that there will be armed people there, THEY need to talk about this differently. And ask some different questions, like:
Will the FBI be arresting people “left of boom” Monday? There should be arrests! But I don’t expect to hear about them for days, (or ever) if they do. Which is part of the DOJ’s procedure, but it would be nice to know they are proactive.
Will known domestic terrorists groups like the Proud Boys be there? Their members helped planned January 6th, participated in it and some have been convicted for seditious conspiracy. What about other individuals & groups? What does “the chatter” say?
Will arrests be made of armed terrorists AT the event? Cops don’t want to put themselves in a situation where they could be shot. And the armed right wingers KNOW this. They expect the cops to treat them “politely” because they are armed. When someone IS arrested it’s usually after the event. (See this story about a Proud Boy who pulled gun at a Portland protest, there was no arrest so he returned armed at a Gresham event. He was finally arrested after multiple egregious actions. Proud Boy Alan Swinney sent to prison for 10 years)
Above, armed members of the right-wing extremist group The Boogaloo Boys gather for gun rights on January 18, 2021, in Richmond, Virginia. SPENCER PLATT/GETTY
The same failure will happening on Tuesday unless the DOJ learned from January 6th.
Threatening speech is NOT protected speech
When Proud Boys or Three Percenters are openly carrying a gun at a protest it’s designed to intimidate. They WANT us to know the threat of deadly violence backs up their words. That’s threatening speech. And threatening speech is NOT protected speech.
When they are holding signs in support of Trump in a place where they COULD legally have a concealed gun, they WANT us to know they could be packing. They want to use the 1st Amendment protections we all have, but that’s not enough for them. They WANT us to know the threat of deadly violence is right there and people should treat them with respect, or else!
Alan Swinney trial Witness Brittany Correll reported seeing Alan J. Swinney point a real gun at counterprotesters outside the Justice Center on Aug. 22, 2020. “A bunch of people ducked, and then I saw the gun,” she testified.
There is a lot of hopeful and magical thinking in the media about this arrest based on what happened in New York. But New York has different laws, different law enforcement and a different population.
More than 2.61 million people had Florida concealed weapons licenses as of Nov. 30, according to the News Service of Florida.Dec 25, 2022 . Starting July 1st 2023, Florida has permitless concealed carry so ANY resident, or non-resident, of Florida is eligible to carry a concealed firearm in public.
These facts change the dynamic of what is happening on the ground in Florida. We need to change how to talk about this hostage situation.
How bad will it get? Another possible predictive headline for Tuesday. (h/t George)
Will “Proud Boys” Use Floriduh’s “Stand Your Ground Law” to Murder Counter Protestors?
My prediction: Tuesday, armed terrorists will surround Miami’s courthouse in an hours long hostage situation But that’s not how the media will cover it. Cross posted to Spocko’s Brain
I don’t want to think or write or move. Yet here I am. Writing. My thought last night was what I said on the Nicole Sandler show while talking about our mutual friend, the late great Joel Silberman. He taught progressive politicians to tell stories that illuminated their message.
Kirk, Joel Silberman and Spocko in A Piece of the Action
There is good news in the world. US job numbers are great. The Economy was not destroyed by GOP, THIS TIME.
YET…. As Mrs. Spocko said, the relief that we feel when the GOP didn’t destroy the American and WORLD economy, doesn’t match the worry & anxiety that we have been feeling for weeks.
Celebrating the win is important. But also infuriating when we shouldn’t have been here. I get Biden talking about “My friends across the aisle” since his plan worked. The MSM LOVES that bipartisan stuff. But I really want those assholes on the right who brought us here to be stopped. I’d like them to be punished, but that’s not Biden. So let’s look at how to punish them in their role in the insurrection. Telling stories about victories is important for helping us feel good about our actions.
Anger is energy. Action is energizing. And Depression is real
I TOTALLY understand why the right stokes anger. It provides energy for them. I’ve used it in the past to fuel my action against RW media. Taking action can be energizing. And when it looks like all the anger you are feeling and the actions you are taking isn’t leading to stopping the right, NOR to getting justice for their horrific actions, the depression can get overwhelming.
The agents of destruction are still out there. They are still powerfully. They are still making money and getting resources and driving their grievance/ victim narrative.
I’m not just “documenting the atrocities” as Atrios likes to say. I try to help people with messages and actions. That includes the choir. Because getting the choir to sing together is important. Picking the right music that meets the moment is important. Are we singing about a funeral or celebrating new life at a wedding or baptism? Do we sing in Latin, that only the elite understand, or the people’s language?
I believe it’s my duty to stop the horrible people on the right and to help others to stop them. I can speak with authority because I HAVE HAD SUCCESS in the past fighting them, both with our narrative and financially. When I tell these stories it’s not about self aggrandizement, but because I want to help others to learn, and when we win, to inspire them. WE CAN DO THIS.
I told Nicole the story about how I worked with multiple religious groups, costing Michael Savage millions of dollars and dozens of advertisers. He sued one of them, CAIR, and lost.
The ecumenical religious group I worked with (Hate Hurts America) cost Michael “Weiner” Savage millions in ad revenue. He sued one, CAIR, for copyright violation and RICO, but he lost. Because they followed the guidelines I set up with my KSFO/ABC/Disney case, and the EFF defended them as they did me, CAIR won. And we established the ability to use their own words against them.
I saw on Chris Hayes someone said Biden won’t gloat or do a victory lap after winning the Debt Ceiling crisis created by the GOP. Sure, that’s an appropriate solution, if you are A Responsible Adult like Biden.
BUT I want to CELEBRATE THE FEELING of defeating them. BIDEN got them to stop! Hurray! Let’s not just move on to the next crisis.
As I said, it would be best if people on the right realized they are wrong and changed. But what if they don’t? What do we do with the ones who know what they are doing is wrong and they keep hurting us? We need to figure out the ways that they get it. Punishments come in many forms. Personally, I don’t want them to profit, we know they care about money above almost all else.
But money is only one reason they keep coming. They like to hurt others. They use the phrase, “Own the libs” and “Make liberals cry” because that is SATISFYING to them. I’m all about making Fascism less profitable, but it’s not the only thing. I don’t know what the pathology is that drives them, but we know that autocrats use that emotion to consolidate their power.
Right now Trump is psychologically exhausting us. He uses many methods to stay in the media, but also lawfare. Everything is always delayed. No victory feels complete. He turns financial judgements against him into fundraising opportunities. He sends a message that he never really loses. NYU prof Ruth Ben-Ghiat talked about this to Ali Velshi.
Right now I see the fight against RW media, Fascists & their promoters requires having a plan to show, and then stop, their use of threats of violence to get what they want. This fight involves how we define threats of violence and the actions we can take when we see it happening. People can and do pay a financial price for defaming others. People CAN and DO go to prison for threatening violence.
It has now been established people go to prison for planning and implementing an insurrection.
The Department of Justice has been sending “the boots” to prison. Elmer Stewart Rhodes just got 18 years in prison for seditious conspiracy. Here he is with his prison issued orange eyepatch.
Now it’s time to send “The Suits” to prison. And tell the stories of our victories. And then we celebrate. Cross posted to Spocko’s Brain
E. Jean Carroll won. I’m glad she won, but I’m still depressed. Why? Because a financial victory against Trump is not enough.
As I said on the Nicole Sandler show on Thursday, we know how Trump responds when he loses, so we need to KEEP working to crush him especially after we win. He must be crushed legally, financially, politically and narratively.
I could speak generically, “Here’s what we should do.” But I have experience in fighting the right financially, legally, politically and narratively. I think that experience can be applied to the situation now and apply it in the future.
E. Jean Carroll after a jury found Donald Trump liable for sexually abusing her in 1996. Photo John Minchillo AP May 9, 2023, in New York.
Recently I spoke on a panel about my wildly successful work to make the violent rhetoric, racism, sexism and religious bigotry coming from right wing media toxic to mainstream advertisers and less profitable to the distributors of RW media. It was a financial victory, but I kept working to make it a legal, political and narrative victory.
I spoke about the narrative and messages that I used that people on our side could get behind and how I taught other groups how to use the Spocko Method.
(If you want to hear more about how it was used on Rush Limbaugh, check out my conversation with Matt Binder on Doomed on Feb 18, 2021. Here’s the YouTube video link)
Because of the recent Dominion settlement, I talked about my previous success, working with Color of Change and Angelo Carusone (while he was still in college before he was CEO of Media Matters) to get Glenn Beck pushed off of Fox News. I spent months writing to News Corp institutional investors to point out Beck wasn’t getting ad revenue in line with his viewership. That was the narrative I used for the institutional investors, “Hey, you care about quarterly revenue, why isn’t this popular show bringing in ad revenue?”
Investors hate an “asset” that isn’t maximizing its profit potential. I knew some would be willing to wait a while, but they would ask Murdoch, “Why AREN’T there any advertisers? What can your hosts do to get the advertisers back?” When it was clear Beck wasn’t going to change, that led to investors to pressure Murdoch to fire Glenn Beck, because they wanted higher quarterly revenue.
In 2023 we see that Tucker Carlson had virtually no ad revenue and that News Corp now uses carriage fees to keep a high viewership, low revenue show on the air. The institutional investors may have have come to accept that they aren’t going to get money from ads on Tucker’s show, but they would REALLY like to have ad revenue.
(BTW, New Corp lied about the impact of losing Glenn Beck advertisers, they are lying now about the lack of advertisers for Tucker Carlson. How do they lie? Using Generally Accepted Accounting Principles of a Conglomerate. That’s why my question to Murdoch started out, “I know you don’t break out the numbers… but”
A new report in the Murdoch-owned Wall Street Journal about Tucker Carlson’s very abrupt firing confirmed Fox News had been lying for years about supposedly not having an advertising problem related to the toxicity of its former prime-time star.
If I couldn’t stop violent rhetoric, I could make it less profitable.
When I first started contacting advertisers in 2005 about the violent rhetoric from right wing radio host I knew that management and the hosts might listen to them and stop talking about blowing people’s brains out and putting a bullseye on Nancy Pelosi. THAT was my goal.
I knew that some hosts wouldn’t listen to anyone. One “doubled down” with more violent rhetoric, he eventually got fired.
Lee Rodgers KSFO radio 560 AM says we should massacre all Iraqis on June 20, 2009
A second host was more careful with what she said, but she had already lost the support of the advertisers and got fired for not bringing in enough revenue. The third started using the Tucker Carlson, “I’m just asking questions” construction and he stayed.
I knew saying, “These hosts should not talk about torturing and killing people.” would be ignored. I was told, “If you don’t like it, change the channel. You aren’t forced to listen to it.”
One of my goals was to interrupt a platitude I heard used by the left, “I don’t like what they have to say, but I’ll defend to the death their right to say it.” Fine. So I said, “The hosts can say what they want, but there are sponsors who don’t want to support what they are saying. Advertisers have a choice. They can choose not to associate their brand with violent rhetoric. The hosts can keep saying certain things, but they don’t have to get rich saying it.”
You might notice I didn’t use certain terms, I did NOT want the hosts to be able to use certain defenses. “I was censored!” No you weren’t, you could keep saying what you did, but you won’t get paid for saying it. “I have my 1st Amendment Rights! ” The sponsors aren’t the government.
Here’s the thing, as a society we HAVE made decisions that certain things people say should be restricted. And, if those restrictions are violated, there should be consequences.
KSFO was, and is, broadcast radio, they WERE under government restrictions. They still are. If they violated those restrictions, like using profanity, the stations could be fined. I knew that, I might not have agreed that profanity was detrimental to society, but the stations were under FCC rules with consequences, so they set up tools to prevent them, like the 7 second delay. If someone let slip an f-bomb, during a broadcast, the station suffered governmental financial consequences for it.
I knew certain forms of violent rhetoric aren’t illegal, even on broadcast radio. However, advertisers said those kind of comments weren’t in line with their stated values. So they pulled their ads. My method was to make violent rhetoric less profitable. It worked.
I also realized that making it less profitable didn’t stop it, but it had an impact. Those stations lost the ability to make money from hosts who said things that advertisers found repugnant. If the stations couldn’t convince the hosts to stop their violent rhetoric, they needed to find other sources of revenue or accept less profits. And that is what happened. Advertising revenue for the “controversial” right wing media hosts crashed. The distributors didn’t make the huge pots of money like they did in the past. Rush wasn’t bringing in the big bucks, so radio distributors shuffled him off to radio stations with a smaller broadcast footprint so they could make revenue when they switched the station to Sports Talk.
iHeart has also forced its high-profile talk hosts to take pay cuts in an effort to save money. In 2016, Limbaugh agreed to a reduced salary, although the terms of the deal were not announced. This was a departure from past years, when information about Limbaugh’s contracts was blasted far and wide to boast of his influence and power.
Laden with $20 billion in debt, talk-radio giant iHeartMedia is trying desperately to save its failing business Salon, Feb 2018
People in right wing media adapted, some hosts moved to platforms where they could hide from accountability from advertisers. When platforms started monitoring them for saying certain kinds of things, the hosts stopped saying those things–because they couldn’t earn money if they did! Others moved to a subscriber only model, where their revenue wouldn’t be subject to platform or advertisers approval. For others, like Alex Jones, even if the show didn’t get ad revenue, mainstream platforms would not host them. So they kept looking for new platforms where there are no restrictions.
So what if a host has enough money sources that likes what they say, and the platforms are fine with it?
Do we just ignore them? Or do we say, “What they are saying is dangerous, harmful and we need to act.”
My friend Angelo Carusone talked about this on the Nicole Reid show last Friday, how this idea that “free speech and defending free speech … is one and the same with this paradox of tolerance, which is that it doesn’t matter how extreme, how ridiculous, how terrible, how violent — if you’re not willing to, as you know, subject yourself to it or even go one step further, facilitate and enable it” you are against free speech.
I’ve been talking to experts in the legal profession, and those who think and write about what people say on right wing media and via social media. I’ve focused on what do we do when what’s said is specifically used to harm people.
I’ve also been talking to people to understand why it looks like there is nothing we can do about this because … (and they have lots of reasons, the 1st Amendment, how they define ‘free speech’, the reluctance to engage in prior restraint or issue a gag order, the difference between public broadcast vs. private platforms, how threats are defined legally vs practically used, enforcement problems by the criminal system vs. enforcement on social media, the use of comments that are “awful but lawful” and the scale problem. ‘It’s too big to solve!”
I want to see Justice. What do we need to do to reach it?
I’ve been breaking down each reason and looking for solutions. Like what I did to stop the violent rhetoric on RW media. I know that a financial path is powerful, but it also isn’t enough. We can understand how a corporation can be defamed and be compensated. We are seeing that a price can be put on “reputation restoration.” But is that Justice?
I want to see Justice. What does that include? I’d like to see the perpetrator punished. I think the victim who is harmed should be compensated. Going forward the perpetrators’ bad behavior should stop.
After the E. Jean Carroll case I read people saying, “He’ll never pay!” So I talked about how he had to put up a $5 million dollar bond to appeal. How it will take at least a year, and he’ll likely lose, so when he does, the money will be there.
When people said, “He’ll raise four times as much money from his supporters.” I brought up how Jack Smith is already investigating Trump for campaign finance violations from his last fund raising actions.
But I know that’s not addressing the anger people are feeling, “He denied he lost, acts as if he won, is getting more money than the settlement and won’t stop harming others? WTF?”
Trump is different. How he responds when he loses is different, so we need to KEEP working to crush him after we win. I didn’t give up after my first win against my local radio hosts on KSFO, I kept building on successes. It’s not an accident that Tucker Carlson had no advertiser revenue in 2023. That’s a good thing, We made that happen. As a CEO of a syndication company said about our campaign,
David Landau, former co-chief executive of syndication company Dial Global
I’m proud of that work. And I know that the right adapts. Going forward we go after how they raise money, we explode their twisted definitions, we use their threats to harm others after they lose a civil case to crush them criminally and then politically. We destroy their narrative that they are the victim.
Fox is NOT a journalistic entity, it’s a political operation. A person working for a PAC wouldn’t get congressional press credentials, but Fox does. It’s time to revoke the congressional press credentials for anybody from #Fox.
I’m happy Marcy started the conversation. I want to move it forward. I think that de-credentialing should be one result following the resolution of the Dominion case in favor of Dominion.
Why Bother To Revoke Fox’s Credentials?
Press credentials have VALUE to Fox. It allows them, as a political operation, to masquerade as a news organization. I’m making the case that Fox is like the RNC or a Political Action Committee and not a journalistic entity, therefore they are not entitled to the benefits and protections we offer journalistic entities in America. Having Congressional Press credentials is a sign of legitimacy. Not having them wouldn’t mean they couldn’t still do stories about congress, but NOT having them, and the REASON they don’t have them sends a message to everyone.
I’m already hearing all the defeatist responses from the left about trying to do this. And the predictions that journalists and media organizations will defend Fox and won’t even TRY to revoke the credentials. We know how the RW would spin this. “Liberals Hate Free speech! Censorship! They hate the 1st Amendment!” So I propose we set up some test cases we can use to raise the issue:
What if the Democratic PAC set up a new company called Donkey News to do “electronic newsgathering and the daily dissemination of news.” and that Donkey News hired “bona fide newsgatherers and/or reporters of reputable standing in their business to cover congress.” Would the Radio and Television Correspondents’ Association accept or reject Donkey News?
(BTW, those phrases are from the membership rules for the House and Senate Radio and Television Correspondents’ Association.) At the hellsite they are @HouseRadioTV @SenateRadioTV @RTCACapitolHill.
I’m hoping they would reject them using the same criteria that the Periodical Correspondents’ Association uses to reject a periodical based on what the organization can’t do.
“The Periodical “does not engage, directly or indirectly, in any lobbying or other activity intended to influence any matter before Congress or before any independent agency or any department or other instrumentality of the Executive branch.”
What if the person under consideration for Donkey News is questioned about his parent organization, the Democratic PAC? Can they use the line, “The reporter works for the news side, not the political lobbying side opinion side.”? (Here is what the Periodical Correspondents’ Association rules say:)
“No part of your publishing family or parent organization may be involved in providing representation services, feasibility or marketing studies, nor be engaged in research or analysis not available to all subscribers. “
As you read about the Dominion case ask yourself, “Do we have evidence that the parent company, “News Corp” and its directors “engage[d], directly or indirectly, in any lobbying or other activity intended to influence any matter before Congress?” Ask if there is evidence that the parent organization was involved in any activity intended to influence “the instrumentality of the Executive branch?
Will any journalistic entity bring up this issue to RTCA? I doubt it. Marcy suggested that a “good government group” do it. I would like to think that journalistic organizations WOULD want to do this, then I read an article “Why journalism schools won’t quit Fox News” in Nieman Lab where they talked to a lot of J-school professors. They didn’t want to attack Fox because it might hurt their student’s chances of getting a job.
Fox weaponized 1st Amendment protections to gain political power
I’ve written to some journalism professors and asked, “What would it take to convince reputable journalists and bona fide newsgatherers within RTCA to decertify Fox?”
When I bring up this topic I see people on the left doing the work to validate the excuses for Fox to keep their credentials. I welcome those because then I can see objections from our side. If I can get them to see that it IS a possibility, then some ask, “What’s the point?” I believe doing this is one more way to weaken a massively destructive force in our country.
I’m an activist and blogger. I see myself as journalism adjacent. I know that I could not get Congressional press credentials, just like Marcy couldn’t when she worked for FireDogLake.
I’m writing about this because Fox has abused the protections we give journalists. Journalists use those protections in the quest to get to the truth. The public rightly supports journalists using their power for that purpose. But that is NOT how News Corp & Murdoch have been using those protections.
Jon Stewart described it this way, the right has weaponized the 1st Amendment protections. Listen to him and his guest RonNell Anderson Jones, Professor of Law at the University of Utah discuss the Dominion Fox case. It is clear that Fox execs knew the truth & lied anyway.
They are knowingly exploiting the cracks in a system that believes in the 1st Amendment
They’re gaming a system designed to give journalists broad leeway in trying to expose truth.
They’re reverse engineering it to create falsehoods–then exploit those falsehoods–which appeal to the basest instincts of their audience, to gain political power.
If you think losing credentials doesn’t matter, ask yourself, “What if the congressional press credentials for ABC were revoked? What if Mark Parker, the head of Disney was deposed with the same kind of clear evidence we are seeing in the Dominion case from News Corp management?”
The DISCUSSION about Fox losing congressional press credentials is about consequences for a political organization using the benefits and protections we offer journalistic entities in America for a corrupt purpose. There should be a price to pay.
I think this masquerade needs to end and it needs to cost “News Corp” money. Losing money is one of the few ways we drive change in corporate media in America. A damaged brand is another.
I do not expect actual broadcast journalistic entities to do this work, even though it would benefit them and the profession. They are gatekeepers. They can revoke credentials. In the past when the Congressional Periodical Correspondents’ Association found out that someone who got press credentials worked for a lobbying firm, they asked them to resign. The person resigned.
The Dominion case is hurting News Corp. There has never been a better time to hurt News Corp and Fox “News”.
I’ve heard lots of ways that Fox will fight this or why this is a waste of energy, so help me out here folks, start thinking of all the ways to USE what we are learning in the Dominion case, the Smartmatics case and the Jan 6th stories to hurt News Corp and Fox.
There is an old Klingon saying, “When your enemy is drowning, throw them an anchor.”
