Charlie Sykes interviewed John Bolton and was surprisingly insistent:
During our interview, we talked about his serial defense of Trump’s relations with Putin, his refusal to voluntarily testify in the impeachment proceedings, and his decision to write a book instead. I may have more to say tomorrow after you all have a chance to listen, but here’s sample. (The transcript is edited for clarity.)
Charlie Sykes: [In your book, you write that Trump] said that it was a good idea to have these internment camps in China. He was offering favors to dictators, including the Turkish strongman. He did not know the United Kingdom was a nuclear power. He did not know that Finland was not part of Russia. And of course, you also write about what you colorfully called “The Drug Deal,” that was going down in Ukraine. You wrote about all of this, you put it in your book, but you wouldn’t testify voluntarily to the House when the impeachment of Donald Trump was up. Why not?
John Bolton: I felt that the impeachment effort was very ill advised. I thought it was inherently political by the Democrats, doing in a way exactly what they accused Trump of doing — of using the powers of government for partisan political purposes, which is what he was doing in Ukraine.
Charlie Sykes: This is not the same thing at all.
John Bolton: I think it is. Let me explain. (crosstalk/audience applauding)
Charlie Sykes: Now wait — impeachment is in the Constitution — it is part of our structure. Calling up and trying to shake down a foreign leader for political dirt is not the same thing. (audience cheering and applause/crosstalk)
John Bolton: I think it is. (audience applauding) What what they did was knowingly to try and focus the effort in a very narrow way — among other things to avoid interfering with the schedule for the Democratic presidential nomination, which was going to take place in 2020. They did it knowing, knowing that they couldn’t get two-thirds in the Senate. And I called that “impeachment malpractice” because of the effect it had on Trump. Nancy Pelosi loves to say, ‘Trump will always be impeached.’ What she omits to say is, ‘Trump will always be acquitted.’ And the maneuver to impeach him and have him acquitted in the Senate empowered Trump. It had exactly the opposite effect of what the advocates of impeachment said.
Charlie Sykes: When you said it was impeachment malpractice . . . were you also suggesting that they should have looked at a lot of other things?
John Bolton: Absolutely….
Charlie Sykes: So what should they have done? When you say to broaden it out, should they have looked at the obstruction of justice with Erdoğan?
John Bolton: Sure, it depends on whether you’re serious about achieving an outcome by launching an impeachment process or whether you’re virtue-signaling: ‘Look at us, look how righteous we are’. . . .
Charlie Sykes: Okay, well that’s ironic, though, that you would suggest that they should have broadened it — to include some of the stuff that you have in your book — but were not willing to testify to. So, you’re criticizing them for not going deeper, but when you had the opportunity, and to go back … (crosstalk)…
Charlie Sykes: Okay, so you told Bill Barr? [There may have been a trace of sarcasm in my voice.]
John Bolton: I talked to the attorney general — that’s right — and I went to the attorney general, I put that in the book too. And I told Bill Barr about some of these things with Erdogan, and some of the others. That’s, that’s his job. It’s not my job. . . .
Near the end, I asked him about regrets.
Charlie Sykes: So looking back, a lot of people in this room have a lot of regrets, about a lot of things. So do you regret the role you played in defending Donald Trump? Enabling Donald Trump? Giving him the cover? Going into his administration? In retrospect, do you think that you wish that your wife pulled you aside and said, ‘John, what are you thinking?’
John Bolton: She did. Yeah, I’m an Edith Piaf guy. You know, “Je ne regrette rien.” Somebody’s going to be national security advisor. You want it to be Steve Bannon? Kash Patel? Because that’s what’s coming in the second term. And, you know. . . .
No, I don’t regret it at all. I knew what I was getting into.
As I say: I was wrong in that I thought that even Donald Trump would have to be disciplined by the gravity of the national security issues he had to face. But when I saw he wasn’t disciplined, it just reinforced in my mind that somebody who knew what was going on had to try and do the best they could.
I don’t believe him. He saw an opportunity to push his own agenda and he took it. It didn’t comport with Trump’s inchoate foreign policy ideas so he didn’t succeed. But if he could have done it he would have.
John Bolton is a malevolent force and one of the better things Trump did was not let him have his way. But he does have his moments:
That’s from a podcast that will be up later at the Bulwark if you want to hear the whole thing. I’m not sure I do …