Imagine what would happen if Trump testified in a criminal case. pic.twitter.com/nDhZM6O98N
— Bill Grueskin (@BGrueskin) November 6, 2023
Cue the reporting about how Trump, a 77 year old conspiracist who is delusional about basic aspects of reality, is too cognitively impaired to be president. Right? Right? pic.twitter.com/3Gdp2tgOBc
— Brian Klaas (@brianklaas) November 6, 2023
Here’s a minute by minute of the morning session. Jesus H. Christ. Tens of millions of people want to put this psycho back in the White House:
“All rise.”
Court is now in session.
Justice Engoron alludes to the photographers, who are about to come in to photograph Trump and counsel at the defense table.
Court is now in session.
Justice Engoron alludes to the photographers, who are about to come in to photograph Trump and counsel at the defense table.
Note:
This will be the second time that Trump takes the stand in this trial.
The first time, Justice Engoron found him “not credible” — and in violation of his gag order.
This will be the second time that Trump takes the stand in this trial.
The first time, Justice Engoron found him “not credible” — and in violation of his gag order.
Engoron remarked that they’re often referred to as a “gaggle” of photojournalist, a word usually used to describe “geese,” he notes.
NYAG’s counsel Kevin Wallace:
“The People call Donald J. Trump.”
The former president saunters to the witness stand.
“The People call Donald J. Trump.”
The former president saunters to the witness stand.
Wallace’s questioning begins with Trump’s corporate structure and his personal beneficial ownership of it.
Asked whether he formed the Donald J. Trump Revocable Trust when he ran for president in 2016, Trump said: “Pretty much when I won, I formed the trust.”
Asked whether he formed the Donald J. Trump Revocable Trust when he ran for president in 2016, Trump said: “Pretty much when I won, I formed the trust.”
Asked why he appointed Don Jr. as the trustee, Trump answers: “He’s a hardworking boy, you know, young man. He’s done a very good job.’
Asked why he reinstalled himself as trustee before leaving the White House, Trump answered because he would go back to business.
Trump complains to the AG’s counsel that “you” and other “Democrat” prosecutors “were all coming after me from 15 different sides.”
Trump says all of the cases are “not good.”
“Weaponization, they call it,” Trump says.
Trump says all of the cases are “not good.”
“Weaponization, they call it,” Trump says.
Trump is shown his statement of financial condition from June 30, 2011 — and downplays its significance.
Pointing to the disclaimer, Trump said. “We would call it a worthless statement clause.”
“They were not really documents that the banks paid much attention to.”
Pointing to the disclaimer, Trump said. “We would call it a worthless statement clause.”
“They were not really documents that the banks paid much attention to.”
Note:
Justice Engoron rejected Trump’s “worthless clause” defense in his pre-trial ruling.
Trump launches into a monologue.
“As this crazy trial goes along” Trump says the defense will call bankers and “they were explain what the process is.”
Justice Engoron rejected Trump’s “worthless clause” defense in his pre-trial ruling.
Trump launches into a monologue.
“As this crazy trial goes along” Trump says the defense will call bankers and “they were explain what the process is.”
The judge interjects, notes that AG’s counsel has been “patient,” and instructs Trump to answer only the questions presented to him.
The judge’s pre-trial ruling on the “worthless” clause.
“Thus, the ‘worthless clause’ does not say what defendants say it says, does not rise to the level of an enforceable disclaimer, and cannot be used to insulate fraud as to facts peculiarly within defendants’ knowledge, even vis-à-vis sophisticated recipients.”
“Thus, the ‘worthless clause’ does not say what defendants say it says, does not rise to the level of an enforceable disclaimer, and cannot be used to insulate fraud as to facts peculiarly within defendants’ knowledge, even vis-à-vis sophisticated recipients.”
Trump swipes at Justice Engoron from the witness stand, going off on a tangent about the statute of limitations:
“I’m sure the judge will rule against me because he always rules against me.”
“I’m sure the judge will rule against me because he always rules against me.”
Engoron asks Chris Kise if that was necessary, before telling Trump:
“You can attack me, do whatever you want, but answer the question.”
“You can attack me, do whatever you want, but answer the question.”
Trump insists that his marquee properties were “underestimated,” like Mar-a-Lago, 40 Wall Street, Doral and others.
Trump falsely claims that the judge estimated Mar-a-Lago was worth $18 million. (Engoron didn’t; he cited an appraisal of the property from 2011.)
Engoron doesn’t take the bait, reminding Trump what the question was.
Engoron doesn’t take the bait, reminding Trump what the question was.
Engoron, interrupting another Trump speed: “Mr. Wallace, did you ask for an essay on brand value?”
Wallace: “No, your honor.”
Wallace: “No, your honor.”
Trump caricatures the AG’s case:
“Trump had no money. And he wrote up phony statements, and he defrauded banks,” even though they were represented by the best lawyers.
Wallace: I move to strike that answer.
Granted.
“Trump had no money. And he wrote up phony statements, and he defrauded banks,” even though they were represented by the best lawyers.
Wallace: I move to strike that answer.
Granted.
Judge: “Mr. Kise, can you control your client? This is not a political rally.”
Kise eventually tells him: “You’re in control of the courtroom, not me.”
Kise eventually tells him: “You’re in control of the courtroom, not me.”
Kise doesn’t confer with his client, and Trump boasts about his financial statements.
Trump: “It’s a nice compilation of assets. It’s a great statement. […] It’s a lot of cash. […] The banks came to me. They wanted to make deals with me.”
Judge: “Stricken! Stricken!”
Trump: “It’s a nice compilation of assets. It’s a great statement. […] It’s a lot of cash. […] The banks came to me. They wanted to make deals with me.”
Judge: “Stricken! Stricken!”
Q: “If anything, you think the valuations that they used were too low, is that correct?”
A: “Absolutely.”
A: “Absolutely.”
Wallace shows Trump the estimated value of Niketown: $348.8 million.
Trump boasts about its location: “I’m between IBM and Tiffany.”
Trump boasts about its location: “I’m between IBM and Tiffany.”
Trump: “It’s a holdup. It’s not a nice word. It’s a holdup site.”
Wallace: The question was…
Wallace: The question was…
Trump, explaining the value of Niketown:
If they want to expand anywhere, you have to go through my building.
Judge: Excuse me.
Trump: Hold on. (continues with his speech)
If they want to expand anywhere, you have to go through my building.
Judge: Excuse me.
Trump: Hold on. (continues with his speech)
Engoron:
“Mr. Kise, can you control your witness because I am considering drawing a negative inference on any question he might be asked?”
Kise urges the judge against that.
“Mr. Kise, can you control your witness because I am considering drawing a negative inference on any question he might be asked?”
Kise urges the judge against that.
Engoron: “I beseech you to control him, if you can.”
The judge warns Kise that if he will control Trump if the lawyer doesn’t.
The judge warns Kise that if he will control Trump if the lawyer doesn’t.
Kise and Alina Habba defend Trump’s answers, calling it responsive to the questions. Habba says Engoron’s here to “hear what he has to say.”
Engoron snaps: “I’m not here to hear what he has to say. He’s here to answer questions.”
He orders Kise and Habba to sit down.
Engoron snaps: “I’m not here to hear what he has to say. He’s here to answer questions.”
He orders Kise and Habba to sit down.
Trump:
“This is a very unfair trial. Very, very unfair, and I hope the public is watching it.”
“This is a very unfair trial. Very, very unfair, and I hope the public is watching it.”
Questioning turns to 40 Wall Street’s valuation at $550.1 million on the 2014 financial statement.
Before that exchange, Trump gave a speech about the statute of limitations, possibly converting it to condominiums, and this remark:
“I got a lollipop in the lease. It’s a legal term, believe it or not.”
Before that exchange, Trump gave a speech about the statute of limitations, possibly converting it to condominiums, and this remark:
“I got a lollipop in the lease. It’s a legal term, believe it or not.”
Q: Did you approve the valuation?
A: I accepted it. […] Other people did it, but I didn’t say, make it higher or make it lower.
A: I accepted it. […] Other people did it, but I didn’t say, make it higher or make it lower.
Wallace:
“I think we’ll take our break now,” adding that he’d appreciate it if Mr. Kise would talk with his client.
“I think we’ll take our break now,” adding that he’d appreciate it if Mr. Kise would talk with his client.
15 minute recess.
At one point earlier, Engoron threatened to excuse the witness if he didn’t respond to the questions he was asked.
We’re back.
Wallace keeps questioning Trump assets on his statements of financial condition.
Wallace keeps questioning Trump assets on his statements of financial condition.
Wallace asks Trump about valuations of his New York penthouse in 2014, which inaccurately tripled its size.
Trump concedes, while disclaiming responsibility for it:
“The number was too high. They lowered it after that.”
Trump concedes, while disclaiming responsibility for it:
“The number was too high. They lowered it after that.”
Trump:
“I thought it was too high. I don’t know what’s too high any more.”
He claims that the number wasn’t “too far off” when you add rooftop access.
“I thought it was too high. I don’t know what’s too high any more.”
He claims that the number wasn’t “too far off” when you add rooftop access.
Trump:
“They took 10,000 feet per floor, and they went times three. But they didn’t take out elevator shafts and different things.”
“They took 10,000 feet per floor, and they went times three. But they didn’t take out elevator shafts and different things.”
AG’s counsel moves on to Mar-a-Lago:
He shows Trump language describing it as an “exclusive private club.”
Asked if that was true, Trump responds: “Yes.”
(Whether it’s a club or a residence is a key issue in the case.)
He shows Trump language describing it as an “exclusive private club.”
Asked if that was true, Trump responds: “Yes.”
(Whether it’s a club or a residence is a key issue in the case.)
The financial statements also notes that Mar-a-Lago is wholly owned by a limited liability company.
A little bit earlier, Trump was asked about a 2021 financial statement, and he responded that his focus was “China, Russia and keeping our country safe.”
He wasn’t president after Inauguration Day in 2021.
He wasn’t president after Inauguration Day in 2021.
Asked whether he now believes Mar-a-Lago is worth $1.5 billion, Trump responds: “I think between a billion and a billion-five.”
NYAG’s counsel confronts Trump with the deed stating that “the Club and Trump intend to forever extinguish their right to develop or use the Property for any purpose other than club use.”
Trump parses: “‘Intend’ doesn’t mean we will do it.”
Trump parses: “‘Intend’ doesn’t mean we will do it.”
(That remark may rank up there in the annals of presidential testimony with Clinton’s: “It depends on what the definition of what ‘is’ is.)
Trump:
“I don’t think so. It says ‘intends.'”
If someone wanted to change it later, Trump says, “I believe they would have the right to do it.”
“I don’t think so. It says ‘intends.'”
If someone wanted to change it later, Trump says, “I believe they would have the right to do it.”
Trump is shown an interview of him saying that “the Mar-a-Lago Club is a great success. It will forever be a club.”
He says he said it as “bravado,” not “legal intent.”
Asked if he got tax benefits from it being a club, Trump answers yes.
He says he said it as “bravado,” not “legal intent.”
Asked if he got tax benefits from it being a club, Trump answers yes.
Questioning turns to Trump’s property in Aberdeen.
Some additional context on the Trump Tower triplex here by @ChaseWithorn at Forbes, which spent years pressing Trump Org officials about property valuations.
Trump:
“Aberdeen is a very rich place. It’s an incredible piece of land, and it may be the greatest golf course ever built.”
“Aberdeen is a very rich place. It’s an incredible piece of land, and it may be the greatest golf course ever built.”
Justice Engoron tells the NYAG’s counsel that he’s following his lead, and if he wants to let the witness “ramble” on with “unresponsive” answers, he’ll do that.
Kise defends what he describes as Trump’s “brilliant” response.
Kise defends what he describes as Trump’s “brilliant” response.
Trump:
“I have a lot of money, a lot more money than you thought.”
“I have a lot of money, a lot more money than you thought.”
Are you aware of any valuations on the statements of financial condition from 2017 through 2021?
Trump:
“I’m worth billions of dollars more than the financial statements” — and anything “off” would be “non-material.”
(The judge rejected materiality arguments before trial.)
Trump:
“I’m worth billions of dollars more than the financial statements” — and anything “off” would be “non-material.”
(The judge rejected materiality arguments before trial.)
Trump returns to the “disclaimer clause” and “worthless statement clause,” in a lengthy monologue — again, an issue decided against him before trial and brought up apropos of nothing.
Trump says that the “disclaimer clause” is upheld by courts across the country, “except for this particular judge.”
Engoron lets the remark slide.
Engoron lets the remark slide.
Trump, to the AG’s counsel Kevin Wallace:
“People like you go around to try to demean me, and try to hurt me.”
Wallace tells the judge he won’t move to strike because he has a lot of ground to cover.
“People like you go around to try to demean me, and try to hurt me.”
Wallace tells the judge he won’t move to strike because he has a lot of ground to cover.
After Trump repeats his talking points about the disclaimer clause, Wallace tells him he already said that.
“I’m trying to make you understand it,” Trump replies.
“I’m trying to make you understand it,” Trump replies.
Trump: “Every court in the United States has upheld it,” referring to the disclaimer clause.
He invokes legal scholars who purportedly agree with him.
“It’s disgraceful,” he says, referring to the case.
He invokes legal scholars who purportedly agree with him.
“It’s disgraceful,” he says, referring to the case.
Trump says of the NYAG: “I think that she’s a political hack.”
He says that the NYAG used this case to try to become the governor and to successfully become attorney general.
(Trump lost political motivation arguments before trial.)
He says that the NYAG used this case to try to become the governor and to successfully become attorney general.
(Trump lost political motivation arguments before trial.)
Habba objects: “Asked and answered.”
Engoron: “No, it hasn’t been asked and answered. It’s been asked. It hasn’t been answered.”
Engoron: “No, it hasn’t been asked and answered. It’s been asked. It hasn’t been answered.”
Trump monologues on the disclaimer clause.
Judge: If you want to learn about the disclaimer clause, read my opinion — for the first time.
Trump: You’re wrong about the opinion.
Judge: If you want to learn about the disclaimer clause, read my opinion — for the first time.
Trump: You’re wrong about the opinion.
Trump: “I think it’s fraudulent the decision. The fraud is on the court.”
Trump rails on about the “fraudulent” decision, claiming Engoron believed a political “hack” over him, referring to the NYAG.
Wallace: “Are you done?”
Wallace: “Are you done?”
Especially given his repeated warnings earlier this morning, the judge has given remarkable latitude for all of this.
Q: Who from the Trump Organization was responsible from detecting fraud?
A: Everybody.
A: Everybody.
Trump:
“Anybody sees something going wrong, come see me about it directly.”
Asked if anyone did that, Trump responds in the affirmative, and the AG’s counsel asks for an example. Trump responds to with a broad generality.
“Anybody sees something going wrong, come see me about it directly.”
Asked if anyone did that, Trump responds in the affirmative, and the AG’s counsel asks for an example. Trump responds to with a broad generality.
Trump:
“Come to see management, but come to see me directly. I don’t want that going on.”
“Come to see management, but come to see me directly. I don’t want that going on.”
This is in response to Trump Org’s engagement letter with Mazars, which held management responsible for “preventing and detecting fraud.”
Referring to the document, Trump says: “I’d love to read this your honor. Can I do that?”
Engoron: “No, not at this point.”
Trump: “Shock”
Referring to the document, Trump says: “I’d love to read this your honor. Can I do that?”
Engoron: “No, not at this point.”
Trump: “Shock”
It might go without saying, but Trump’s “shock” remark was said with mocking sarcasm.
Trump’s shown an article by Forbes.
He scoffs: “Forbes. They’re owned by China. Now, they sold it to Russia.”
He scoffs: “Forbes. They’re owned by China. Now, they sold it to Russia.”
Trump, hammering home the point:
“I have very little respect for Forbes.”
(Forbes broke the news that Trump inflated the size of his New York penthouse and recently knocked him off the billionaires list.)
“I have very little respect for Forbes.”
(Forbes broke the news that Trump inflated the size of his New York penthouse and recently knocked him off the billionaires list.)
The AG’s counsel plays an audio clip of the interview, which was mostly inaudible.
Kise asks if the judge made any of it out.
He didn’t.
They move on.
Kise asks if the judge made any of it out.
He didn’t.
They move on.
Asked if the barely audible conversation refreshes his recollection of the fact that he spoke to Forbes, Trump answers no.
Wallace shows Trump evidence showing that 40 Wall Street ran a cash flow deficit of $8.7 million in March 31, 2015.
Trump says they made a lot of investments to the building.
“I spent a lot of money on fixing the building up.”
Trump says they made a lot of investments to the building.
“I spent a lot of money on fixing the building up.”
Trump, on NYAG Letitia James:
“She doesn’t even know what 40 Wall Street is.”
NYAG is visibly cackling at the remark for a bit, then puts her head down to compose herself.
“She doesn’t even know what 40 Wall Street is.”
NYAG is visibly cackling at the remark for a bit, then puts her head down to compose herself.
These two dots show the NYAG’s office in relation to 40 Wall Street.
(They’re right next to each other.)
(They’re right next to each other.)
Q: “Mr. Trump, are you the one who told a reporter for the Wall Street Journal that there was a $600 million appraisal for 40 Wall Street?
Trump says he doesn’t remember something from 12 years ago.
Trump says he doesn’t remember something from 12 years ago.
The AG’s counsel shows an email from Don Jr. to Trump Org execs on 1/22/12, which says, in part, “djt told [the reporter] the 600 [number] so he will be happy if that gets printed.”
Trump concedes he was the “djt” his son referred to in the email.
Trump concedes he was the “djt” his son referred to in the email.
Lunch recess.